UF NEWS: Harmony HaJ defeat Vengeance

[Judge]

I'm sorry could I have a clarification? Is it your opinion that if I catch your kingdom waving someone, I can immediately wave you because you are not in an active hostile? And since this is not a double hostile (in your opinion) you would not be angry with me?

Well I wanted to keep out of this thread but decided to give it in.

I agree to Dharan's point of view out here. Hitting a kingdom is an active hostile cos other kingdom has all their armies out on the other kingdom. It is normal behaviour that if pervasion was not interested to war, PH can demand what he wanted or kept hitting if he wanted. Harmony had no right to get involved unless they intentionally wanted to get the alliance in.

Mad_scottish you say that only if 2 kingdoms are actively hitting each other then it is active hostile is completely false as well.. If everyone starts to follow this thought process of yours then there wont be waves anymore. If kingdom A waves kingdom B then Everytime a Kingdom C will pounce on Kingdom A for free acres.

So far after reading all this it clearly looks like a double hostile. If pervasion had no intention to hostile Vengence then they would not have 4 halfers opping that big dwarf.. This is clearly a planned double hostile from HAJ!!

[Mad_Scottish]

In a normal situation where there is no history and no bs that has developed combined with bad blood and mutual distrust then yes there is going to be a certain outcome and most people are relatively happy to deal with the situation. ie, you are going to get waved and sometimes you just have to take it. I have clearly demonstrated that to you Judge in very recent events. However, no aspect of it was a normal situation and it was deliberately meant to antagonise.... we reacted.

However, the situation that we (as an alliance) had with Vengeance is something that operates outside of the usual day to day procedures that take place. If any or all of you disagree with what happened you are entitled to how you feel but from my own perspective it is also completely and utterly irrelevant because you are not the ones in the situation. You arent the ones that have had to keep dealing with a situation which has continued to crop up throughout the age. I chose to deal with it in the manner I did because hey, we are an alliance. Does it mean I am going to wave every kingdom that waves one of my kingdoms, no it doesnt so people need to stop assuming this is now HaJ policy. They also need to read the actual report and deduce from the events that have taken place that it is/was a reaction based on the events that have already occured. Ultimately the outcome has been beneficial because there is now an agreement in place between the alliance and vengeance to try and move away from events and build a better relationship where we can both function normally instead of things continuing to develop like they were.

Given the history and events combined with the interactions we had with PH and vengeance led to us reacting the way we did and whether people feel it was justified or not simply does not matter.

Dharan, I have no problem with you wading in and offering your opinion etc but you are also renowned for just wanting to bash haj and have demonstrated that time and time again in these forums. I have explained the situation repeatedly and there are a few that seem to want to keep twisting it to something it isnt. But to specifically answer your question if you want to piggy back on a wave that a kingdom has made against another kingdom then ultimately that is going to be your choice. I have never ever had anyone tell me through my time in the game that just because one kingdom waves another, that it makes it an active hostile. To deliberately go out and look for kingdoms that are waving I would disagree with, under the circumstances that we had with Vengeance and the ensuing feelings that existed..... I dont see the problem and there is no one on this planet that will convince me that there was a problem with it. Just as Vengeance felt justified to wave a haj kingdom the same hour they came out of war, I feel equally as justified defending perversion and taking vengance out of the equation for them. It is a situation thing that is conducted on a case by case basis, it is one of the luxuries we have as an alliance to be able to back each other up in such circumstances that they found themselves in against a kingdom that we had repeatedly dealt with through the age.

Again I will reiterate my point, this is not a standard haj policy, it was a decision that was made because I felt it was the best way to react under the circumstances. So everyone that is of the opinion that we did something wrong I would just ask one thing. Look at the situation and how things have developed over this age. Take into account that the kingdom that was getting waved had been hit the same hour they came out of war and on christmas eve.... was then demanding x and y combined with the lack of trust that existed and the opinion that regardless of how much was given up they wouldnt back off. They felt they had a point to prove....

Just think about it

[Gorash]

This is hilarious!

And I thought the warforums from our war where full of trashtalk.. Nice war Harmony, you pwned your enemy hard! Sore talk is for loosers only.

[DHaran]

HaJ has nothing to do with it, it's simply Uto ethics that have been around along time. Waving a kingdom who has an open war button is a double hostile, that's all I said. I don't believe you for one second that you think it's ok to wave in that situation, because I know you would say it's a double hostile if it happened to you. I was speaking entirely outside of your specific situation and only referring to your comment that it wasn't an active hostile, an excuse which doesn't fly. You may have had reasons to do it, but don't try to falsely justify it.

Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with waving a kingdom once OOW. When it was a 48 hour EOWCF, yes it was lame. Now you have plenty of time to recover with a 96 hour protection and have nothing to complain about if you get waved.

[Mad_Scottish]

That is only your perspective which doesnt make it right as what I have said it based on my perspective combined with the situation. Once again, whether you or anyone else agrees or disagrees is besides the point. We did what we felt was best in the situation, end of convo really.

[DDodge]

Yea but a clarification was requested that's all

Its not like you want people waving into all haj alliances, and that's exactly what can happen when people are exposed to something like this. Stalk HaJ kds and wave them when they have army out waving another...

But I was trying to help both sides with my question mad scotty. Giving you a chance to explain your side of what looked like a blatant double team, and some of the past problems and relations with them, which you did explain nicely ^_^

[DHaran]

Yea but when one of those reasons is because they hit an ally an hour after a 96 hour post war, it gets kinda shady. That's like saying alliances get special rules where they get to recover longer after wars or else you get double teamed, lol.

[Danzigg]

this only happen cause its Vengeance.

[Mad_Scottish]

That is in a nutshell. *points to danzigg*

I have previously said that this isnt suddenly a policy of haj nor as it ever been. It was all related to the history that has developed over this age and some of the previous encounters of last age. Now I am just repeating myself and I dont need too.

[ProA]

Maddy loves corn!!!

[Purplehaze]

There was no reason for you guys to get involved, we have been waved by HAJ repediately throughout the age. Last age when we were 20 mill plus NW you didn't see us razing your kingdoms to the ground even though we could have. this age it started with Icey waving us, then Perv double hostile waving us, then we get out of war with perv and icey waves us, etc... I am fine with our kingdoms working towards peace, but you guys should at least admit that it wasn't a fair move towards us, none of the stuff that happened this age.

[Drengi]

Its not all innocence PH, You spent a great deal of time end of last age farming our KD that was about half your NW. At the time I didnt even know there was bad blood between you and HaJ, couldnt understand your KD's keeness to hit us at that size.

However I agree that sleeping dogs should be left to lie and everyone move on. There will always be a 'You did this' and 'You did that', might as well just leave it all behind and move forwards.

[Purplehaze]

and which kingdom are you in Drengi that we farmed last age? I doubt that, we were involved with many hostiles with kingdoms our size last age late age.

[lastunicorn]

I like the part where PH keeps saying how much damage they're about to do when they're already halfway through the war. Seems like a poor tactic to get the other kingdom to think they're losing. If you could hurt them so much why didn't you already do it?

[Drop Dead Sexy (DDS)]

I like the part where PH keeps saying how much damage they're about to do when they're already halfway through the war. Seems like a poor tactic to get the other kingdom to think they're losing. If you could hurt them so much why didn't you already do it?

I tried that tactic against harmony last age... LoL, in the end I surrendered due to activity issues, and the inability to stop the NM.... damn if only last age they didnt have AW.