Comments on age 53 potential changes

[macleod]

How about instead of make every race weaker and orc and faery stronger, we nerf the race from this age.... which imo is orc. Keep everything else relatively the same, but reduce orc gains and increase their military losses on attacks... keep cleric the way it is this age. Invincible offense should remain an undead only trait.

Orc/cleric is by far the strongest selection this age, and you have just made it stronger, while making every other selection weaker.

Faery t/m looks better, but lots of kds won't even run t/ms.

[Proteus]

Elite cost of undead should be lowered to ~900-1000 they no longer have no offensive combat losses so no reason why their 9/3 elite should be so expensive. Orc elite is 9/2 and only $800.

[DHaran]

Elite cost of undead should be lowered to ~900-1000 they no longer have no offensive combat losses so no reason why their 9/3 elite should be so expensive. Orc elite is 9/2 and only $800.

Orcs can't convert from specs tho, so it seems close to a balanced tradeoff. Maybe something like 1k gc would make a little more sense though.

EDIT: then again Orcs have elite creds, so ya I agree with Proteus.

[DanGE]

Hm..why does dwarves get buffed when they are already so strong and dominate the charts now?
..with 20% BE, free building, 6/6 elite, how are other races going to beat it?

Also, merchant is already very strong, you see the top charts now, mostly just dwarf merchant, so no idea why "merchant" and "dwarf" both get boosted.

For undead, i think should still keep the "offense doesnt die".
For faery, I think -10% pop is too much, maybe just -5% is ok.
For halfling, a 4/6 elite becomes almost unplayable because everyone else has a spec thats either 0/6 or 0/5....does the soldier after aggression become from 2/2 to 4/0??
For avian, not many people playing it now, so why do you need to nerf it to -10% BE?? It will hurt them much i think...just compare to Dwarf with +20% BE and a more efficient elite at 6/6


Orc/Cleric can gets free elite credits while no loss on offense...potentially very imba.

I also agree with Proteus...1200 elite for UD is too expensive..pls note that dwarf with a 6/6 is only costing 750...and orc with 9/2 is 800...

From these changes, I can foresee Orc/Cleric and dwarf/merchant becomes very imba...hope you can consider my comments, thanks.

[DHaran]

Merchant lost the 2x Bank bonus, I don't see it as getting boosted.

[Ethan]

To anyone saying halfer is dead - WTF? 'Tis the best race in the game under these changes! If these changes held up I'd tell my whole kingdom that we'd run 2-3 faery, and rest halfer.
BTW, dwarf is stupid now. With the NW on that elite, the *best* option for it is pure spec. Pure spec race = fail. If dwarf goes pure elite, 'tis a worse attacker than faery.

Rankings___OPA______DPA_____NW/A___MPNW____%Max
Faery_______71.12____38.3____141.95___0.77___84.02%
Avian_______92.18____49.63___182.9____0.78___84.52%
Dwarf_______76.08____40.96___150.88___0.78___84.56%
Elf_________99.38____53.51___180.28___0.85___92.45%
Human______98.44____53.01___176.23___0.86___93.68%
Undead____100.04____53.87___175.9____0.87___95.37%
Halfing______94.83____51.06___163.12___0.89___97.49%
Orc_______105.8_____56.97___177.43___0.92__100.00%


I almost kinda hope they don't listen though - since so many people are going to take bad picks, while I can get my kingdom to take good ones. But meh - a better game would be more fun, so here's the power rankings on the first draft of the changes.

[Jay.K]

Too many bad ideas. Avians are not a threat on any level. Dwarves can beat them silly.

And whats the deal with Cleric? Everyone can now be Undead? Disaster....

[newatthis]

why do people choose UD if they can choose cleric ???
The Cleric
* Offense doesn't die on attacks you make
* 1 extra General
why not reduce the power of cleric by taking away the extra general bonus as i see the cleric is over power for 2 ages
my suggestion:
The Cleric
- 50% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
Troops losses on attacks or defense converted to soldiers
- (lost the extra general)

[Landro]

Avians:
Sure, they have very cheap elites now but they are too weak for a heavy attacker. They lost too much punch. 0/6 specs doesn't really make up for that.

Dwarf:
No major changes

Elf:
They seem geared at T/M now because they can't really afford to replace the amount of elites you lose on attacks with no hospitals

Faerie:
Adding thievery effectiveness is maybe a little too much on top of boosting their elites

Halfling:
extra pop and stealth is very nice and may turn them into riot masters. Giving them defensive elites hurts their attacking capabilities a lot. -10% gains doesn't help them either.

Human:
Extra income + FoK = sci whore's dream

Orc:
small changes.

UD:
Losing troops in combat while being able to train them at a very high price? Cleric seems the default personality for UD next age.

Merchant:
Less likely to get plundered now but thievery (and FG) still works at normal strength against them

Shepherd:
If any personality needed a boost it's shep but did they get one? :(

Sage:
All bonuses lowered from 30% to 20% except learn protection which was raised from 50% to 75%. Learns against Sages will become very rare but sages will get a lot less out of their sci.

Warrior:
Having Marquis rank, I can assure you that the current bonuses are already extremely significant. Getting them doubled is just scary. That would mean +20% pop, income and OME and +30% T/M boost at the rank of Count!

Tactician:
I'm not sure if they needed a boost.

Cleric:
Default personality for UD and people who like to get chained

[scorpio86]

Maybe i will go Elf Cleric ... hmmm

Invincible Elf Lords :-)

[Landro]

Maybe i will go Elf Cleric ... hmmm

Invincible Elf Lords :-)

Get ready to get chained ;)

[Dantep]

Ethan,

Would you mind explaining your table and what the significance of it is? What OPA and DPA is that in reference to? 50% draft, 75% draft?

Thanks!

[Palem]

These changes are very...curious. Not necessarily good or bad, but quite a shakeup. Anyway, on with the changes themselves...

Avians
Bonuses:
* - 20% attack times
* Defensive Specialist Strength +1

Penalty:
* - 10% building efficiency
* No access to stables

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Griffins (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Harpies (0/6)
* Elite Unit: Drake (6/4, $600, 6.25 nw)
* Spell book: Clear Sight, Town Watch, Fanaticism

6/6 cheap army. Fast. Seems to me like a "middle of the road" attacker really. Not bad, but not really all that great.

Dwarves
Bonuses:
* + 20% BE
* Free Building Construction
* Can use credits to raze buildings

Penalty:
* Accelerated Construction not available
* - 15% thievery effectiveness
* + 50% food consumption

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Warriors (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Axemen (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Berserker (6/6, $750, 7.0 nw)
* Spell book: Vermin, Quick feet

Paired with Shep I could see this being pretty strong, but that nw on the leet has got to drop. Would have liked to see them get a better spellbook since they're really, imo, the #2 mage. Or at least they were.

Elves
Bonuses:
* + 2 mana per tick in war
* Defensive Specialist Strength +1
* +30% damage on instant offensive spells.

Penalty:
* No access to Hospitals

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Rangers (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Archers (0/6)
* Elite Unit: Elf Lord (7/3, $600, 6 nw)
* Spellbook: Mystic Aura, Clear Sight, Pitfalls, Amnesia, Reflect Magic, Mage's Fury

7/6, cheap army. The thing that doesn't make sense that you clearly want it to be the obvious "A/M", but you've taken away MS since any attempt at an attacker will have to be paired with a personality that lowers losses. Maybe just give them MS for their spellbook and this will really work just fine.

Faery
Bonuses:
* + 50% magic effectivness
* + 50% thievery effectiveness

Penalty:
* - 10% population
* Offensive Specialist Strength -1

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Magicians (4/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Druids (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Beastmasters (3/8, $900, 7.0 nw)
* Spellbook: All spells

Before I say what I'm going to say, yes I know this setup is actually good. That said, I don't like it. I'm not a fan at all for having -10% pop and -1 offspec. I just don't like it one bit. The point of the penalties is to make the race a "non-attacking" race, which is perfectly fine and I'm not going to argue against that, but -10% pop effects so many other areas than attacking. Yes, I know that like ALL the changes that went into faeries are space savers, but seriously, I'll trade -10% pop for No Offensive Spec any day of the week.

Halflings
Bonuses:
* + 1 extra stealth per tick
* - 50% thief cost
* + 10% population
* Espionage operations are 100% accurate in war

Penalty:
* -10% gains on attacks

Other Information:
* Soldiers: 2/2
* Offensive Specialist: Strongarms (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Slingers (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Brutes (4/6, $500, 5.0 nw)
* Spellbook: Town Watch, Quick Feet, War Spoils, Aggression

This one is very intriguing. Giving another race a defensive leet is a strange decision, but giving it to halfers makes sense. That said, They're going to have a static defense which is never a quality I like with my attackers. Idk, to be honest, I just don't know what to do with a halfer at this point. Not saying it's bad or good...but strange.

Humans
Bonuses:
* + 30% income
* + 40% Damage on Sabotage Operations

Penalty:
* - 20% magic effectiveness
* Offensive Specialist Strength -1

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Swordsmen (4/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Archers (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Knight (8/3, $800, 6.5 nw)
* Spell Book: Greater Protection, Fountain of Knowledge

Meh, same as last age really.

Orcs
Bonuses:
* + 20% gains
* Trains elites with credits

Penalty:
* - 50% thievery and magic damage (on offensive operations)

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Goblins (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Trolls (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Ogre (9/2, $800, 6.75 nw)
* Spellbook: Fanaticism, Aggression, Bloodlust

Still good. Nothing much else to say.

The Undead
Bonuses:
* Successful land attacks convert specialists to elites
* Spreads and is immune to The Plague
* No Food required

Penalty:
* - 20% science effectiveness
* Access to basic thievery operations only (neutral relations ops)

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Skeletons (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Zombies (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Ghoul (9/3, $1200, 7.0 nw)
* Spellbook: War Spoils, Nightmares, Chastity

Gaining the ability to train Ghouls is pretty huge even if it is expensive. The problem really is, once the age progresses and leet conversions gets toppled by Orc's training credits, they won't be able to compete.

The Merchant
* +40% Income
* -50% Money Losses on Plunder Attacks
* Immunity to all Income Penalties (Riots, Plagues, etc.)

Losing double banks is pretty big. It's still quietly strong, but compared with some others idk how strong...

The Shepherd
* Land generates 4 bushels of food per acre daily
* Immune to Droughts, Storms, the Plague and Dragons.
* -30% Explore time and costs
* -30% Building Construction Time and costs

No changes is meh. Still weak. If anything needed adjusting it's this.

The Sage
* + 20% Science effectiveness
* - 20% Book Costs
* -20% Research Time
* -75% Losses on Learn Attacks
* Every 4 Acres of land produces 1 Science Book per Hour

As always, Sage is king =\

The Rogue
* +1 Stealth recovery per tick
* Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
* Thieves Dens are twice as effective (subject to DBE)

No changes are meh

The Mystic
* Meteor Showers spell
* All Guilds and Towers are twice as effective
* +30% Spell Duration (For Duration Spells Only)

No changes are meh again. This is another weak personality that could use a serious tweaking.

The Warrior
* +15% Enemy Casualties (on attack or defense)
* -15% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
* 10% more OME in war
* Double bonuses from honor

Very good idea to make Warrior a decent pick. Double honor bonuses is pretty huge.

The Tactician
* Gain 30% more Specialist and Building Credits
* -15% Attack Time
* -30% Military Training Time
* -50% Land Losses when Ambushed

Meh.

The Cleric
* Offense doesn't die on attacks you make
* 1 extra General

Holy banana boat...
That's all I'll say lol

[slackattack]

If these changes stay, Orcs will be miles ahead of all the other attackers.
Avians took a particularly hard hit compared to this age. Avians will be inefficient attackers with regards to both acreage (6/6 army, -10% BE modifier) and NW (High nw / off elite). Compare that to dwarves who will do everything far better than them.

I find the Halfling soldier + elite combo intriguing as a concept.

[Ordray]

Palem, fix that double post :P