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Thread: How did USA become such a messed up country?

  1. #16
    News Correspondent flutterby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    lol @ your religious fanatic BS. Believe it or not, but some people do believe in god.
    You have to admit that interest groups use religious beliefs to sway the government officials or other groups.
    One instance is abortions. Planned Parenthood does a lot more than abortions and the reality of that is that it's a small percentage. Yet,
    people say that taxes shouldn't be used to fund it. I think that religion should stay out of the government or the churches should start paying taxes.
    They want a say in how the government is run on a 'corporate' level then they should have to pay to have the say. As individuals the church officials
    are citizens just like the rest of us.

    American's that play Uto should be used to being trash talked for living here. It's no different than people thinking poorly of Romanians or the Dutch. Does
    the place my mother happened to give birth to me make me less of a person. Don't think it matters as long as you're a good person. (shrugs)
    Quote Originally Posted by VT2
    I should get a medal for all the common sense I highlight on a daily basis.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <Bishop> I don't dislike Ezzerland
    <Bishop> We are just incompatible

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <~Palem> I read that as "snuffleupegas gropes Palem" twice lol

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutterby View Post
    You have to admit that interest groups use religious beliefs to sway the government officials or other groups.
    There are many, many things wrong with the gov't and yes, I agree that the separation of church and state is not enforce enough.

  3. #18
    News Correspondent flutterby's Avatar
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    There is nothing binding the United States in separating church and state. It was just an explanation that Thomas Jefferson gave when explaining the First Amendment.
    If it was more legally binding I don't think there would be as much interference of religious groups or their priorities.
    Quote Originally Posted by VT2
    I should get a medal for all the common sense I highlight on a daily basis.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <Bishop> I don't dislike Ezzerland
    <Bishop> We are just incompatible

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <~Palem> I read that as "snuffleupegas gropes Palem" twice lol

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio86 View Post
    I name it?

    Economy.

    Military.

    Assistance to the world as a whole.

    ???

    People in America can further their education far better than those in Norway, i live in Australia and even i know that. Do you mean less criminality as a whole or by percentages of the total population? I don't know enough about either countries welfare of healthcare but if Norway and America ever got 'down to it' Norway would just be a smoking crater in the ground. America has done more good for the Earth as a whole than Norway has done.

    I do not understand this anti American sentiment? Is it just jealously? Hating the 'guy at the top'?

    America is better than Norway. Maybe we should start a poll. I am willing to put $$$ that America would be voted better than Norway. It would just be you and stoffi voting for Norway lol.
    No US economy isnt especially good.

    Is military a good thing? You like wars, you like when people are killing other people?

    Their assistance is a two faced coin.

    Now you are just being stupid, education possibilities in US is heavily depending on how rich you are for one thing. The average persons education is lacking severly. You dont seem to know much yet you seem to think US is the best country in the world how does that work out for you? Yet again you think the amount of firepower makes a country the best country in the world? You would love North Korea then for one thing, since they are packing so much even China wouldnt dare to touch them.

    Ofc you dont understand, you dont seem to understand alot of things, like what a forum is, how to argue for your opinions, you are happy with having a opinion then just repeat that with no real arguments to your case.

  5. #20
    News Correspondent flutterby's Avatar
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    Korp, you're right. Almost everything about the US is a two faced coin. War is bad, because it kills people... but if the US didn't do anything we would still be the bad guys.
    You're also right about the lack of education here. The standards in general are lacking. There is a spend spend attitude and a sense of entitlement that the newer generation
    doesn't feel that they have to work for things.
    Quote Originally Posted by VT2
    I should get a medal for all the common sense I highlight on a daily basis.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <Bishop> I don't dislike Ezzerland
    <Bishop> We are just incompatible

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <~Palem> I read that as "snuffleupegas gropes Palem" twice lol

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio86 View Post
    How is Norway more succesful than the USA?

    ???
    As a country, it actually does. I may be biased being Swedish and all but Norway outperforms USA in many areas including education, politics, equality and quality of life in general to name a few. But America crushes it in other areas such as technology, scientific research (by far), economy, aid governance etc.

    Granted, to try and compare a small and prosperous (thanks to that oil) country such as Norway to a super power like America is just plain stupid. There are far too many differences and nuances to each country to try and actually compare them effectively. But in my personal opinion, yeah, Norway > USA.

    And let me try and explain why without sounding as if i'm anti-American, because i'm not, or trolling, because i don't. I was reading the other day that a lot of green projects in several cities in America were cancelled by the city or state leaders because people were protesting them suggesting they were a UN plot to destroy many peoples property rights. The projects? Many of them were bike lane projects.

    I was staggered by the absolute absurdity and sheer stupidity of such protests. Why would you protest against that of all things?! I decided to read up on it in different reports and the consensus among reporters seemed to be that it would somehow infringe on personal rights and their property rights. Keep in mind that these are public bike lanes. The main backers of these protests? Tea party supporters.
    For such a grass roots movement to take such control of the politics, and at times advancement of projects such as this, in America is beyond me. At times it even scares me knowing that much of the support and power behind the Tea Party activism is driven by the Koch brothers and similar republican power houses that are bent on taking political power to a new height.

    That's another thing as well, the completely absurd political power landscape currently in position. Unlike many countries, you only have TWO parties to vote for and that's it. Democrats, and particularly this current administration, has proven to be very weak and futile against making progress on their promises and policies. What's more dissapointing is that the Obama administration was riding on such a high wave and had such power that they could've easily gotten many of their policies through. But they never did. In fact, they became so weakened that they allowed a few rouge, and in my mind corrupt, politicians to take a stranglehold on the economy during the debt ceiling crisis. They held the very world economy hostage. For such a thing to happen is just inexcusable. But what compounds on that is the fact that many of those politicians were told by their constituents not to agree to a single thing the Obama administration did as well as not to raise taxes. The very fact that the rich are becoming richer and more powerful is beyond obvious to anyone know and anyone that says otherwise is living in blissful ignorance.

    Your rampant sensationalist media, such as Fox and i know Fox takes a lot of heat for it but it's not the only, is just crazy. Many of the news channels are more of a propaganda outlet, specifically in the Fox case, for those with pockets and connections.

    However the biggest thing that i personally find crazy and just disgusting is the complete lack of proper health care for the public. As someone who has predominantly lived in both Sweden and England public and free healthcare is not only obvious to me but a human right. No person should wait months for a crippling illness or disease to be diagnosed or be paying extortionate amounts for medicine. Noone should be forced to leave their country and go to neighbouring countries such as Canada or online pharmaceuticals that are based out of America just to get some affordable medicine and healthcare products. They shouldn't. No insurance company should deny anyone coverage simply because of a "preexisting condition" such as cancer, HIV or any terminal disease. It's disgusting that anyone who is unemployed and breaks a leg or arm should pay such a hefty sum that they get in debt and have to take out a bank loan.
    People, specially women, should not have to rely on charities for such things as free breast cancer diagnosis or abortions. Abstinence, regardless of your personal view on it, should not be pushed on kids and not teach them on safe sex, specially in school.

    That's just a few of the many things i see as an issue with America. It's mostly to do with your politics and policies and not with the average people.
    In fact, my hope and love of America rests in many things that its people. For example, one of the most fantastic things that i love is how you express your freedom of speech, both in cases such as the Westboro Church where they can protest for all they like but some amazing people protest back, often in glorious fashion.
    I love the fact that gay rights is such a growing social change and that many people, both gay and straight, are pushing for it. I love the fact that Occupy movement had such great support from the average Joe that were sick and tired of the politicians, bankers and their money grubbing buddies. I love how friendly and social many people are regardless of your colour or religion. Despite my initial beliefs going to a predominantly (95% or so) white county in Alabama as a black man i was treated very hospitable and did not get any hostile looks or anything thrown at me when i spouted my atheist beliefs.

    Many of the things that are bad about this country, things like Tea Party and such, are driven by an older generation that has the time, effort and money to push for their own agendas. But luckily, and i wish this could happen sooner as cruel as it might sound, they're going to die out very soon. And we'll have a culture and society that has grown up with things such as gay rights, a free and open internet and technology, are more knowledgeable and free to pursue knowledge and education at any age and location, and comfortable with change and how to achieve it. If the last election was any indication, just like Obama said, the young voters of this country and becoming smarter and more aware of who they want to vote for and becoming more determined to see the policies they want to see happen. For example, one of the youngest, if not the youngest, Senate member is an avid League of Legends player like me and has been very vocal against bills such as SOPA.

    I have faith that it'll turn around. But anti-American crap like the OP has eschewed so far does not help anyone.

  7. #22
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    i was surfing thru and i got this thread, Its an Intresting read. come to think about it every thing is two faced coin in the U.S.
    - you have the best economy and education in the world but you cant stop being the worlds largest polluters
    - you have the worlds best sports infrastructure in the world but most team games you play not popular the rest of the world
    - you have occupy wall street protests but companies cannot survive unless they outsource job who can do best with minimal fuss and half the pay
    - you guys invade a country under false propaganda (iraq) but is not willing to lead the charge against countries which are trully brutal
    - you guys want to stop terror but are the largest aid giver to pakistan which is the root cause of the terror
    - the country has a coloured man as the president of the country but there is so much division among ethnics within.

    Not taking sides here but want the americans to look inwards and see before blasting people who start genuine threads.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    As a country, it actually does. I may be biased being Swedish and all but Norway outperforms USA in many areas including education, politics, equality and quality of life in general to name a few. But America crushes it in other areas such as technology, scientific research (by far), economy, aid governance etc.

    Granted, to try and compare a small and prosperous (thanks to that oil) country such as Norway to a super power like America is just plain stupid. There are far too many differences and nuances to each country to try and actually compare them effectively. But in my personal opinion, yeah, Norway > USA.

    And let me try and explain why without sounding as if i'm anti-American, because i'm not, or trolling, because i don't. I was reading the other day that a lot of green projects in several cities in America were cancelled by the city or state leaders because people were protesting them suggesting they were a UN plot to destroy many peoples property rights. The projects? Many of them were bike lane projects.

    I was staggered by the absolute absurdity and sheer stupidity of such protests. Why would you protest against that of all things?! I decided to read up on it in different reports and the consensus among reporters seemed to be that it would somehow infringe on personal rights and their property rights. Keep in mind that these are public bike lanes. The main backers of these protests? Tea party supporters.
    For such a grass roots movement to take such control of the politics, and at times advancement of projects such as this, in America is beyond me. At times it even scares me knowing that much of the support and power behind the Tea Party activism is driven by the Koch brothers and similar republican power houses that are bent on taking political power to a new height.

    That's another thing as well, the completely absurd political power landscape currently in position. Unlike many countries, you only have TWO parties to vote for and that's it. Democrats, and particularly this current administration, has proven to be very weak and futile against making progress on their promises and policies. What's more dissapointing is that the Obama administration was riding on such a high wave and had such power that they could've easily gotten many of their policies through. But they never did. In fact, they became so weakened that they allowed a few rouge, and in my mind corrupt, politicians to take a stranglehold on the economy during the debt ceiling crisis. They held the very world economy hostage. For such a thing to happen is just inexcusable. But what compounds on that is the fact that many of those politicians were told by their constituents not to agree to a single thing the Obama administration did as well as not to raise taxes. The very fact that the rich are becoming richer and more powerful is beyond obvious to anyone know and anyone that says otherwise is living in blissful ignorance.

    Your rampant sensationalist media, such as Fox and i know Fox takes a lot of heat for it but it's not the only, is just crazy. Many of the news channels are more of a propaganda outlet, specifically in the Fox case, for those with pockets and connections.

    However the biggest thing that i personally find crazy and just disgusting is the complete lack of proper health care for the public. As someone who has predominantly lived in both Sweden and England public and free healthcare is not only obvious to me but a human right. No person should wait months for a crippling illness or disease to be diagnosed or be paying extortionate amounts for medicine. Noone should be forced to leave their country and go to neighbouring countries such as Canada or online pharmaceuticals that are based out of America just to get some affordable medicine and healthcare products. They shouldn't. No insurance company should deny anyone coverage simply because of a "preexisting condition" such as cancer, HIV or any terminal disease. It's disgusting that anyone who is unemployed and breaks a leg or arm should pay such a hefty sum that they get in debt and have to take out a bank loan.
    People, specially women, should not have to rely on charities for such things as free breast cancer diagnosis or abortions. Abstinence, regardless of your personal view on it, should not be pushed on kids and not teach them on safe sex, specially in school.

    That's just a few of the many things i see as an issue with America. It's mostly to do with your politics and policies and not with the average people.
    In fact, my hope and love of America rests in many things that its people. For example, one of the most fantastic things that i love is how you express your freedom of speech, both in cases such as the Westboro Church where they can protest for all they like but some amazing people protest back, often in glorious fashion.
    I love the fact that gay rights is such a growing social change and that many people, both gay and straight, are pushing for it. I love the fact that Occupy movement had such great support from the average Joe that were sick and tired of the politicians, bankers and their money grubbing buddies. I love how friendly and social many people are regardless of your colour or religion. Despite my initial beliefs going to a predominantly (95% or so) white county in Alabama as a black man i was treated very hospitable and did not get any hostile looks or anything thrown at me when i spouted my atheist beliefs.

    Many of the things that are bad about this country, things like Tea Party and such, are driven by an older generation that has the time, effort and money to push for their own agendas. But luckily, and i wish this could happen sooner as cruel as it might sound, they're going to die out very soon. And we'll have a culture and society that has grown up with things such as gay rights, a free and open internet and technology, are more knowledgeable and free to pursue knowledge and education at any age and location, and comfortable with change and how to achieve it. If the last election was any indication, just like Obama said, the young voters of this country and becoming smarter and more aware of who they want to vote for and becoming more determined to see the policies they want to see happen. For example, one of the youngest, if not the youngest, Senate member is an avid League of Legends player like me and has been very vocal against bills such as SOPA.

    I have faith that it'll turn around. But anti-American crap like the OP has eschewed so far does not help anyone.
    Very good post.



    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    Be a Troll. Get trolled. Trollololololol



    lol @ your religious fanatic BS. Believe it or not, but some people do believe in god. Also believe it or not, not everything that a political candidate says is reality. They say things that will win them votes. Telling huge crowds of people that you pray to god about being president and getting an answer will win a person a lot of uneducated votes.

    Also, what happened to America? We got done fighting 2 wars. You know... that thing that Norway hasn't done in 2 centuries because if you did you would just be "New Germany"...


    Rest of your post is complete garbage and not even worth addressing. Come talk to me when Norway actually has "tens of millions of people"...

    Okaaay, now we're getting somewhere here. :)

    As Korp says, you're a mod and should act as a role model. ;)

    Believing in God or Allah is not the same as being a religious nutcase. I know plenty of people who believe in God but they don't let it rule their lives in the same way as Osama Bin Laden and Mitt Romney. Religion and politics is severly mixed in the States. A survey shows that if you want to run for President or Senator, being gay is considered better than being an atheist. That's how sick it is.


    Also, Norway has fought several wars. We were in Korea, we were in Jugoslavia, we are in Afghanistan and we were in Libya. We also participate(d) in a number of peace-keeping operations. But we only go to war when it's UN or NATO-sanctioned.
    Due to our small size, we can't fight wars alone and only play small roles. But in Libya, I believe we dropped 1/4 or 1/5 of all the bombs dropped.

    So yeah, we fought wars. Maybe you didn't know, most wouldn't as we are a tiny nation.

    Please keep the debate on the topic.



    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio86 View Post
    I name it?

    Economy.

    Military.

    Assistance to the world as a whole.

    ???

    People in America can further their education far better than those in Norway, i live in Australia and even i know that. Do you mean less criminality as a whole or by percentages of the total population? I don't know enough about either countries welfare of healthcare but if Norway and America ever got 'down to it' Norway would just be a smoking crater in the ground. America has done more good for the Earth as a whole than Norway has done.

    I do not understand this anti American sentiment? Is it just jealously? Hating the 'guy at the top'?

    America is better than Norway. Maybe we should start a poll. I am willing to put $$$ that America would be voted better than Norway. It would just be you and stoffi voting for Norway lol.
    Economy?? Norway is the richest country in the world per capita. We are closing up on 100000 US dollars per person saved up in our oil fund. Also, the differences between rich and "poor" are one of the smallest in the world, unlike the US. Also, Norway doesn't have an underclass as in America, everyone lives in a home(no, not trailers/homeless). Any person is guaranteed at least 2000 dollars in welfare if one can't work, there is NO unemployment(3% they say, but that's what a country needs) and you will get a job if you want to. I got 2 myself and could quit both jobs and get new jobs within a week. There's 70000-80000 young Swedes working in Oslo because we got too many jobs and need workers.
    No one has to be poor in Norway, though there are ofc differences.

    As for the US economy.... Countries like Poland are better off than USA. Most people get no vacation, a large portion of the population has to keep several jobs to support their family, 40 million poor, plenty more trailer trash, high unemployment, bad prisons which create more criminals, etc.


    In the US, you have to have relatively wealthy parents to go to university and get an education. This excludes tens of millions of young people from an education. In Norway, you only pay 80 dollars per semester to go to university and you get 15000 dollars a year as a scholarship/loan from the government. Some(40%) is given to you upon graduation, the rest you pay back when you start working.
    Poor or rich, everyone has the same possibility to get an education in Norway.


    Assistance to the world as a whole, well, USA doesn't give a lot of aid, they mostly war. Norway gives 5 times as much per capita, though mostly to corrupt regimes which I am very against. It helps to support tyrranies

    America is NOT better than Norway.

    http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/un...place-to-live/

    Norway has topped the United Nations’ global list of the best country to live in for the eighth year running.


    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    Yea, but just closing a troll thread seems like such a defeat. Might as well make some use of it and make the troll look foolish. That way people won't fall into future trollings. This is the politics board after all. These threads won't be falling off anytime soon lol

    This is no troll thread. You're mixing personal sentiment with your job.




    USA is losing its middle class, adding up to an already large under class. Meanwhile, the richest are getting even richer and control everything.


    Would you perhaps say that the weak labour unions got something to do with it? Labour unions which never managed to keep the wages high enough. In comparison, Norway has very strong labour unions and a minimum wage today would be around 40000-50000 dollars a year if you work fulltime. Industry wages are very high and this contributed in destroying most of our heavy industry. A balance is needed, labour unions are needed, not too weak, not too strong.

    As it is now, USA is becoming a failed state.


    Also, you should stop taking this personal. I'm sure most americans posting here are smart and bright people, but you need to be able to criticise your own country or you are falling into my trap about American ignorance. An ignorant person will defend what hurts him and can't reflect. I want to see some reflection here. This is not a Norway vs USA thread, it's a "what went wrong with USA" thread.
    ABS vs Rangers


  9. #24
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    stoffi, lets keep the thread balanced shall we? i aint norwegian or an american but i knw for a fact U.S.A has contributed more than anyother country the way the world is shaped now. each country has its own pros and cons and no country is invincible. it doesnt mean if a guy is a moderator he cannot be patriotic and be defensive about his country. ur going at a right path to finding the problems of a country tho.

  10. #25
    Forum Addict scorpio86's Avatar
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    America IS better than Norway.

    Ask anybody dude.
    LIVE LONG AND PROSPER

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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio86 View Post
    America IS better than Norway.

    Ask anybody dude.
    Now you're just playing on the same level as the OP... That's not a good thing.

    Scoffi, i have to ask. You seem to bring a very strong Anti-American sentiment here and almost all your posts are distinctively anti-American. Why is that?
    I can understand being patriotic to your country, hell if i lived in Norway i'd be proud of it. But i don't. Instead i live in Sweden and just as proud, if not more, being a citizen of this country. However i don't understand where your seeming passionate dislike for America comes in to play...

  12. #27
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    Well gee heres an idea, i am done arguing with stoffi, clearly he is biased. I am finito for this thread.
    LIVE LONG AND PROSPER

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dx7778 View Post
    the country has a coloured man as the president of the country but there is so much division among ethnics within.
    What color is he exactly? I'm sorry, but that's what I used to ask my bigoted grandfather when he used that phrase. And I don't think I have
    blasted anyone in this thread. Yes, I'm American. I hate the general state of the country in general, more so hate how the government is paid
    off by corporations that produce products that are known to kill us. Say Big Tobacco?

    And I think all of the protesting without a plan put forth to show how changes can be made make it look like American's are nothing but whiney
    children expecting a hand out.
    Quote Originally Posted by VT2
    I should get a medal for all the common sense I highlight on a daily basis.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <Bishop> I don't dislike Ezzerland
    <Bishop> We are just incompatible

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <~Palem> I read that as "snuffleupegas gropes Palem" twice lol

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutterby View Post
    And I think all of the protesting without a plan put forth to show how changes can be made make it look like American's are nothing but whiney
    children expecting a hand out.
    I'm sure they said the same thing about the peace/hippy movements and look how that turned out. Protests do make an impact. Just look at Spain for example. Germany has even had some success with public protests against ACTA for example. Though the Occupy movement kinda fizzled out it led to a widespread protest movement and people not only became aware of how corrupt the corporations and banks in league with the politicians are but how to organise themselves to make an impact. It wasn't as big of an impact as many had hoped but they did accomplish a fair few things. One of the many i thought was great was the move to credit unions from traditional banks. It did hurt a fair few banks.

    Never underestimate the power of protests and concentrated effort by the every day man.

  15. #30
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Well gee heres an idea, i am done arguing with stoffi, clearly he is biased. I am finito for this thread.
    This is your problem you cant argue if your life was depending on it, you if anyone is biased, you havent provided any actual facts to your claims, the only thing you done is saying US is the best country out there. THis is the reason I didnt really wanna start a discussion with you cause your mind dont stretch further than you claiming one thing then copy and paste it in upcoming 10 posts you will make.

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