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Thread: How did USA become such a messed up country?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dx7778 View Post
    stoffi, lets keep the thread balanced shall we? i aint norwegian or an american but i knw for a fact U.S.A has contributed more than anyother country the way the world is shaped now. each country has its own pros and cons and no country is invincible. it doesnt mean if a guy is a moderator he cannot be patriotic and be defensive about his country. ur going at a right path to finding the problems of a country tho.
    Well, USA is in many ways a great country and in other ways a very bad country. In modern history, no country has shaped the world like the US has, we all enjoy McDonalds, Coca Cola, we lean towards the American Accent rather than the British Accent(unlike before), we watch Hollywood movies, we go to New York and experience a fantastic city, etc. USA is a lot and very varied. Land of the brave and the free, it used to be.

    But look at the big picture here. Things are going downhill(which could be said for many other countries as well, e.g. Greece, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.). So, as my topic says, WHAT WENT WRONG WITH THE US? They went from beloved super power to hated world police. They went from being a country where everyone could succeed to a country with huge social differences, with more and more middle class families falling into poverty and trailers. And with poverty and desperation comes hardcore religion. People seek comfort in religion and thus goes the opposite way than the rest of Europe, which is secularising.
    What went wrong? Something went wrong. I have some ideas ofc, but I asked ppl what they thought. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio86 View Post
    America IS better than Norway.

    Ask anybody dude.
    Why do you even bother posting?

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio86 View Post
    Well gee heres an idea, i am done arguing with stoffi, clearly he is biased. I am finito for this thread.
    You never argue, you just post claims, telling people how it is without saying anything else to document it. You are having a monologue with us.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Now you're just playing on the same level as the OP... That's not a good thing.

    Scoffi, i have to ask. You seem to bring a very strong Anti-American sentiment here and almost all your posts are distinctively anti-American. Why is that?
    I can understand being patriotic to your country, hell if i lived in Norway i'd be proud of it. But i don't. Instead i live in Sweden and just as proud, if not more, being a citizen of this country. However i don't understand where your seeming passionate dislike for America comes in to play...
    Well, I guess that's how it appears due to the answers I (expect to) get. Hardcore Americans come in defending their country and I am then left to focus on all the negative aspects. Read above what I answered about what I think about the USA. :) I plan on going to NYC this autumn, can't wait.

    This thread is not about Norway, but ppl compared it right away and I fell into that track as well. But Norway is a good comparison as it is ranked #1 in the world to live in by the UN, 8 years in a row now.


    Quote Originally Posted by flutterby View Post
    What color is he exactly? I'm sorry, but that's what I used to ask my bigoted grandfather when he used that phrase. And I don't think I have
    blasted anyone in this thread. Yes, I'm American. I hate the general state of the country in general, more so hate how the government is paid
    off by corporations that produce products that are known to kill us. Say Big Tobacco?

    And I think all of the protesting without a plan put forth to show how changes can be made make it look like American's are nothing but whiney
    children expecting a hand out.
    This is what I'm looking for. You can love your country and still be critical to its condition! That's why we vote. :)
    ABS vs Rangers


  2. #32
    Needs to get out more VT2's Avatar
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    Government and big business have become one.
    Catwalk's crusade for legalized cheating was a stunning success, with ghettos and low-tiered teams everywhere losing their wells of knowledge to better kingdoms in the process.

    Step one: replace everything that works.
    Step two: blame the predictable epic fail on outside forces.
    Step three: keep the community informed that no progress has been made since the last update.
    Step four: thank you for your patience.

  3. #33
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    dude everyone hated america since long back. one reason is the fact that they were successful and its just jealousy. Let me be clear every country has its ups and downs, I dont think norway was great forever not to mention the U.S.A too its a cycle. There will always be changes in superpowers and time and history is the answer.

    - As far as the economy is concerned yes the current recession was long overdue for america. The reason? the country runs on Debts and what happens when no one is able to pay? they declare bankruptcy which is very very easy in the U.S.
    - And what happens when entire folk are unable to pay rising debts ? thats the reason of the Subprime crisis in 2008.
    - The reason why occupy wallstreet failed? its bcos thru generations there has been a culture developed of giving big bonusses and giving more attention to monetary benefits in work rather than giving a work life balance and Work Happiness.
    - What happens when ppl at work are having money ? they spend and dont save, and the employee becomes inflexible towards work.

    look at your fiscal deficit!! its 1 trillion!! no wonder u guys are in trouble. I dont think lot of ppl actually raise it as an issue in elections rather than focus on immigration which has actually helped you get the professionals u need to build the economy you already have. Now its gonna be fun the reverse brain drain is happening, Guys in the U.S are starting to look for Jobs outside the country and ppl who settled there who are professionals are returning back to there motherland. unless u guys start talking abt economy and sustainability environmental wise instead of pointing the gun to a weakling you guys will be the next soviet union.

  4. #34
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio86 View Post
    America IS better than Norway.

    Ask anybody dude.
    American here informing you that Norway is better

  5. #35
    News Correspondent flutterby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dx7778 View Post

    - The reason why occupy wallstreet failed? its bcos thru generations there has been a culture developed of giving big bonusses and giving more attention to monetary benefits in work rather than giving a work life balance and Work Happiness.

    look at your fiscal deficit!! its 1 trillion!! no wonder u guys are in trouble. I dont think lot of ppl actually raise it as an issue in elections rather than focus on immigration which has actually helped you get the professionals u need to build the economy you already have.
    First, Occupy Wall Street didn't work because they were complete morons. It drew attention to something that the entire world already knew. It's no longer the peaceful protests of the 60's. Granted, there were peaceful people there, people who really believed in what they were doing but.... there were also those people who just wanted to jump on the band wagon and be a part of something. They knew nothing of what was going on all they see is protest against something... lets camp out too. When things get out of control and the people started being belligerent who did they point the finger at, the police. I'm sorry, they're doing their job and then they're the bad guy. I personally believe that it was not well planned. They got the country listening and then what? Where is the plan for change? I thought at least someone there would have been able to make a document saying this is what we feel should happen and this is how we should better the situation. Did that happen? No. So in my opinion, they wasted time and money to talk loud and do nothing.

    As for the elections... We can vote for anyone who says what we want to hear and we cannot guarantee that they will do anything they promised to get the vote. Well vote for new people? We would have to have laws and amendments rewritten and have the majority of State and Federal Congress members replaced, not year by year or election by election, at one shot. That won't happen either because either A) some people don't want change; B) People vote according to party not who will do the better job; C) People just don't care or have given up hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by VT2
    I should get a medal for all the common sense I highlight on a daily basis.
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  6. #36
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    The US should focus on their own problems, in their homeland. What are you doing in the Middle-East? You come to bring 'freedom and democracy', what you really bring is death and misery. For what? WMD's? Never found them, expect those that you sold them yourself during the Iraq-Iran war.. And then you wonder why so many people hate you.

    Same with Iran now. Government is trying to make the people scared by spreading propaganda about Iran, and as we all know, people are sheep (especially Americans), so they follow blindly. Fear is what they use to controll you..

    The ironic thing is, America dropped two atomic bombs, murdering thousands of people. Iran can't have one? Because Iran isn't a democracy? The US aren't a democracy either, it doesn't matter who you choose or vote for. In the end war and misery is all you will get.

  7. #37
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    When did normal people start posting in UP? The old politics forum was hilarious and painful to read at times.

    Forget Norway! Kenyaaaaa!

    In all seriousness,
    The American brand of conservatism that rose to prominence in the 80s is something peculiarly evil, and something even the people who are saying it don't take too seriously. For these people, they're sociopathically playing a game, and if you consider their actions in those terms it starts to make sense. The people officially running things ten years ago were the equivalent of noobs living in their rich mother's basement who don't have a clue about strategy other than what they cobble together from more experienced players in the past, and talk themselves up with bull**** while running a horrible build. ("HUR HUR LETS BUILD 10% DUNGEONS AND PUT ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE IN THERE") Now it's not much better, since the monarch kowtows to the noobs and doesn't tell them that their build sucks balls and they need to stfu. Hence, Tea Parties.

    I don't have a good comparison with over there, but from what I've been told it's not all it's cracked up to be.

  8. #38
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    LL Australia 1.08c to the dollar

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    USA is not "messed up" because of lack of social security... it's messed up because of the future of social security and medicare payments and the loads of debt that go into financing social services. The USA was too expansionary during the boom years and the fall is hard during the bust years, and most of the US didn't have oil to fall back on to smooth . Tax brackets continued to drop while spending rose and sooner or later America will have to slow down. Overspending and undersaving afflicted the government and the people.

    That being said, America is still fairly well poised to continue being a global superpower for a long time:
    It's easy to start a business in America. It's easy to start fresh (after bankruptcy) so entrepreneurship is flourishing. Free speech is still bigger here than most anywhere else. There's an education infrastructure that is heavily focused on research and on creating cutting edge programs for students so that they have a good chance of being competitive. Wages are competitive and allow the middle class worker to buy things they could not buy 30 years ago. Money flows freely. Tax rates are manageable. The USA has its hands in many industries, being a competitive global player in everything from cars to pharmaceuticals to social networks.

    If we're comparing to Norway, Norway needs to start figuring out what happens when their oil runs out. The abundance that they are experiencing now is not going to last when their significant exports are: oil. And fish. By constrast, the USA is a big exporter of machinery, manufactured products, chemicals, technology and so forth.

    Norway needs to continue to strengthen their education and economic freedoms and promote science, business and technology developments and attract foreign investments and create a 'start up culture'. They're not going to get there when they have 40%-50% tax rates. Companies need low tax rates AND a business-conducive culture. USA posts its corporate rates as high as 35% - but with the current tax codes in place, there are many american companies that pay effectively 0 taxes and most are fairly on the low side in general. Norway has personal, corporate and sales taxes that they should look to eventually lower or make use of to stimulate a better business infrastructure.

    So what is wrong with the USA? I don't think it's any of the things you specified. I think it's a lack of commitment to taking things slow and steady to continue to assert dominance by overspending too soon. Can the USA get back on track? Sure, since the country is still well ahead of most others in terms of success and future potential.

  10. #40
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    What track? You know money isn't real right? This is just our current system for distributing resources.

  11. #41
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    The USA is not a messed up country, We are not at are peak and have work to do but id say that is the main cause of our "decline." There's a huge work ethic difference between the past generations our current and our future ones.

    And the US>Norway
    Norway wouldnt be close to where it is without the US

    Think of it like this, Norway is a crumb snatcher... a piggy backer... cherry picker... however you want to put it. They our successful off the US and other capitalist countries research and development. Lets see one of Norway's largest exports is oil, hmm I wonder why it is in such high demand. Not to mention you pay double at the pump what I pay in America. Oh they have free healthcare, thats awesome, I wonder where all the research and development came from, I mean the US has what double the Nobel Prize winners in medicine the past 10 years compared to the rest of the world.

    Dont diss the reason you have luxuries, when your country can put up 94 billion in biomedical research then say something till then stfu.
    Oh also Norways taxes are some of the highest in the world

    Which country is better would be of personal opinion, I'm a big city type guy so id have to side with the US on this one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo3MoMMa View Post
    The USA is not a messed up country, We are not at are peak and have work to do but id say that is the main cause of our "decline." There's a huge work ethic difference between the past generations our current and our future ones.

    And the US>Norway
    Norway wouldnt be close to where it is without the US

    Think of it like this, Norway is a crumb snatcher... a piggy backer... cherry picker... however you want to put it. They our successful off the US and other capitalist countries research and development. Lets see one of Norway's largest exports is oil, hmm I wonder why it is in such high demand. Not to mention you pay double at the pump what I pay in America. Oh they have free healthcare, thats awesome, I wonder where all the research and development came from, I mean the US has what double the Nobel Prize winners in medicine the past 10 years compared to the rest of the world.

    Dont diss the reason you have luxuries, when your country can put up 94 billion in biomedical research then say something till then stfu.
    Oh also Norways taxes are some of the highest in the world

    Which country is better would be of personal opinion, I'm a big city type guy so id have to side with the US on this one



    At the same time I will agree with you about the future generations as a youth my self born of the X generation, however, I disagree with you. What is the problem is the matter of group thinking and reliance of the government solving all our problems, the fact that our youth doesn't give a flying f$%k about their future or where its heading, the united states used to be NUMBER 1 NUMBER ONE IN EDUCATION and now we have dropped to 21 because not only of rising cost in tuition and drop of FAFSA (and anyone who says you have to be fcking rich to go to school in the united states, im here to PROVE YOU WRONG IM POOR IM UNEMPLOYED IM TRAILOR TRASH ( as some of you put it) I have been attending school for 1.5 years earning a 3.5 GPa or better and in PTK international honor society yeah and we talked about this at our regional conference this weekend while I was away. this is one of the main reasons I wanted some time to talk this over and take time to wait to post on this.

    Many of you say the problems are withint he infrastructure and our system: I am here to tell you its not the sysem, nor the people. Yeah its messed up and the government is basically turned into a dictatorship; despite this, when you step back and look at the past 50-60 years, I CAN SEE WHY, all we do when we have issues is hold out our hands like fcking children "help help. MOMMY MOMMY HELP ME, FEED ME, GIVE ME WORK, GIVE ME MONEY, GIVE ME FOOD" when you allow the government to provide for you as a parent it will take control (it has nothing to do with big corporations in politics or church in state) you wanna know the real problem

    its nothing to do with government > its the people. I am an AMERICAN if you disagree or troll on me and say other wise, then I am here to tell you.

    Your opinions or envy towards me or hatred or whatever you call it to justify your attacks toward me. Is your own choice, this is my choice to address this matter: Those who say i did this for attention are wrong; those who are saying I did this for post count are wrong; those who oppose my argument, then get me facts. Get me evidence, show me your data, statistics, show me your empirical first hand experiences that I have and my own personal evidence of this lack of motivation and care. It is just not the government, the parents, the children, the new youth who are becoming into adulthood: it is a factor of everything and as we are grown in this world we cannot exclude the external variances we are facing here and we cannot ignore the fact of the world we live in, for if we deny that we use the government and allow them to control our lives or help us in SOME aspect be it (Food, financial aid for college, wel-fare, disability, social security, "st vincent de paul or some church or non-profit organization or help, such as food banks or anything") you are leaning on your government and your local community which is not a big ordeal who cares about the typical stereo type of "oh he goes to the food bank, that person is nasty: or you know he must be poor because he has food stamp card! or you know he is a slob look at his clothes!" I am here to tell you it has nothing to do if your homeless, rich, poor, middle-class, a wage slave (which is middle class to me: this was a term my psychology professor used last summer), a student, a youth, an elder, a government worker. the point is we are human, we are here, we are american, we are american native and we need to brace this. We are one of the most multi-diversed countries in the world!! WE are also one of the "Largest" (with obesity please do not take this as an insult or pun. I am saying these all are generalities) in the world! America is not just"one thing, nor is it many things: america is not keyed into term" We have become weak because our morals and values have been destroyed: The american society is not lost!! to say such slander is to assume one has the ability to control human minds with ones own (a bad analogy I know, yet it works) I could go on and on and on with such a broad topic it is quite curious and entertaining at the same time how many of you all post one liners, or dis on american or any other nationality: or ethnicity (you say things such as "race" or "norwegian") being prideful is nothing wrong: yet to spurt it around with arrogance is not! this is not an attack or personal in any way or means ( as I stated I am an american: and I am sad to say I am not proud of the world I live in or grew up in sometimes I am ashamed to say "im american") Yet to show fear is to give the beast the bone to feast upon easily and give in and/or up. . . . . .

    I love america and grew up here, naturally I am patriotic and for my country: I am just not supportive of how our country is run; moreover, I am not proud of how people treat themselves and others in our country. there are many that I love and respect and hug and share interests with!! Yet that is so minuscule to minute, that it does not make an impact: yet at the same time the idiom is it only takes "one" It can take one, yet how many will that "one" impact or get through too: It is more where your level dedication or "love" is and how big scale you are operating on. There is a quote I like to use to explain this very much so "A ripple is only a ripple unless others pick up on the wave and begin realizing the tide of what is going on around them: For if you do not know or realize what is going on around you, how can the ripple turn into a wave of affect to prosper the entire pond?" (it is off key and worded, however, It is credited the source is unknown it was something I read a long time ago in a video game) So while I see many people in here going up and down and fighting with rather dull banter this is my opinion and thoughts (there is much I have left out and much I have not said or touched base on however, you asked for an opinion so here it is)

  13. #43
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    Well I'm from Australia (which I love), but if something catastrophic ever happened that I had to move from my country .... and it would have to be something absolutely disasterous ... like the whole continent being swallowed up by the ocean (or Tony Abbott becoming Prime Minister) ... I would choose Norway.

    Norway is constantly being voted as the country having the best quality of life. It has a fantastic education system. It's health system would beat the US hands down. And all in all I think it would be the place I would choose to go if I ever had to leave Oz.

    As much as I don't have anything against Americans, and our two countries have been allies for donkey's years, it's really not somewhere I could ever imagine myself living.

  14. #44
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo3MoMMa View Post
    The USA is not a messed up country, We are not at are peak and have work to do but id say that is the main cause of our "decline."
    Don't Americans speak English? It's not safe to cling to a sinking ship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octobrev View Post
    Don't Americans speak English? It's not safe to cling to a sinking ship.
    Well said, but is the ship really sinking?

    I see it more as we just need to rebuild the engine

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