How did USA become such a messed up country?

[DHaran]

lolz, except that they signed the exact declaration that they refused to even respond to prior to the bombs. Funny how their entire attitude changed once they realized the warning we gave them was not an empty threat.

Accepted unacceptable terms, a brand new concept brought to you by JohnSnowstorm!

Oh lol, look at this nice little tidbit in the Allied response to the Japanese demands that the Emperor remain in power:

From the moment of surrender the authority of the Emperor and the Japanese government to rule the state shall be subject to the Supreme Commander of the Allied powers who will take such steps as he deems proper to effectuate the surrender terms. ...The ultimate form of government of Japan shall, in accordance with the Potsdam Declaration, be established by the freely expressed will of the Japanese people.

"In accordance with the Potsdam Declaration" haha, you know that funny little thing they were suddenly ok with actually considering accepting?

Followed by Japan stating:

The Japanese cabinet considered the Allied response, and Suzuki argued that they must reject it and insist on an explicit guarantee for the imperial system. Anami returned to his position that there be no occupation of Japan. Afterward, Tōgō told Suzuki that there was no hope of getting better terms, and Kido conveyed the emperor's will that Japan surrender. In a meeting with the emperor, Yonai spoke of his concerns about growing civil unrest:

I think the term is inappropriate, but the atomic bombs and the Soviet entry into the war are, in a sense, divine gifts. This way we don't have to say that we have quit the war because of domestic circumstances.

And the Emperor himself:

At a conference with the cabinet and other councilors, Anami, Toyoda, and Umezu again made their case for continuing to fight, after which the emperor said:

I have listened carefully to each of the arguments presented in opposition to the view that Japan should accept the Allied reply as it stands and without further clarification or modification, but my own thoughts have not undergone any change. ... In order that the people may know my decision, I request you to prepare at once an imperial rescript so that I may broadcast to the nation. Finally, I call upon each and every one of you to exert himself to the utmost so that we may meet the trying days which lie ahead.

So where exactly are you getting this garbage that the surrender was somehow going to happen prior to the bombs? The bombs made it happen, any argument to the contrary is simply delusional.

[Magn]

Bad things happen in war and tough decisions are made, but I would never compare it to the way terrorism specifically targets civilians for absolutely no other reason than to murder them.

Technically, the US did something equally awful.

They played kingmaker in many regions, toppling democratically elected parties in favor in puppet dictatorships either so that they could control the economy and get goods for peanuts or so that they could force other countries to be in their image.

And more globally (more western actors involved), there was the redrawing of borders post WWII, completely ignoring ethnic incompatibilities and of course there was Israel (not present day Israel, Israel at it's inception which wouldn't have been possible without western support and which displaced tons of Palestinians).

I know all that **** and I'm not even an history buff. I'm sure there are plenty more I'm not mentioning.

Those people have strong historical incentives to hate us. We sowed a lot of garbage and now we're collecting.

Was 9/11 right? No. Did 9/11 come out of the blue without provocation? Hell no.

[DHaran]

But you also know I'm right that if the US stayed out of all of that crap, people would cry about how we're ignoring problems we have the power to help solve. It's lose-lose getting involved with anyone for anything. It's why I hate politics altogether. If we're going to be hated for getting involved and hated for not getting involved, personally I'd choose not getting involved and letting them sort out their own ****. There is so much we can do to make our own country better, we should just focus on that since we aren't wanted elsewhere.

[Kemia]

Technically, the US did something equally awful.

They played kingmaker in many regions, toppling democratically elected parties in favor in puppet dictatorships either so that they could control the economy and get goods for peanuts or so that they could force other countries to be in their image.

And more globally (more western actors involved), there was the redrawing of borders post WWII, completely ignoring ethnic incompatibilities and of course there was Israel (not present day Israel, Israel at it's inception which wouldn't have been possible without western support and which displaced tons of Palestinians).

I know all that **** and I'm not even an history buff. I'm sure there are plenty more I'm not mentioning.

Those people have strong historical incentives to hate us. We sowed a lot of garbage and now we're collecting.

Was 9/11 right? No. Did 9/11 come out of the blue without provocation? Hell no.

we put japanese/americans in internment camps during the duration of WW2, post-world war 2, europe was so torn from it, it required american aid to re-grow. Anyone who questioned the presidents authority during WW2 was suspected of being a spy, the cold war A war based on espionage and sabotage (psychological warfare and intelligence) the CIA came to be in this era/time (when exactly am not sure), Americans were stripped of basic rights during WW2, and everything was foused on the war efforts, compare that to now, we are not nearly as restrained as we were back then. America assesrted it self as a super-power after WW2, expansion of empire (trying to copy britian and europe) invasion of phillipines, cuba, hmm. Hawaii -- The removal of american indians onto reservations for further expansion into the west, abolishment of slavery, founding of the KKK (holding the younger american generation reponsbile as a whole, or even todays society in america) for what has occured in the past, would be like us blaming the europeans for trying to invade us and still calling them panzies (we still do that im sure).

"damned if ya do and damned if ya don't" -- Bart Simpson

why is it the only things people focus on are the shortcomings of any nations past/history/present? Then try to dehumanize us and pretend they are better than us? You want to play mind games? It is, what it is. Just like all the protestors and critics blaming obama for everything, any new person who comes into office is automatically blamed for everything and deemed "bad/evil" just because they are a politician? If that's how you feel, then stop whining about it and do something to change it.

[Korp]

Was 9/11 right? No. Did 9/11 come out of the blue without provocation? Hell no.

But 9/11 was americans who died and thats not okey! Few hundred thousands japanese people are okey thou, just to get a point through...

[Kemia]

But 9/11 was americans who died and thats not okey! Few hundred thousands japanese people are okey thou, just to get a point through...

dont forget about 11 millions jews, blacks, and soldiers under hitler, i guess we were due for depopulation?

[Death has a shadow]

I had to make an account to jump in on this. I could post personal opinions for hours. We could argue perspectives and different news releases all day. It's pointless though, none of you were there. Try focusing on facts. Look at the disproportion in amount of aggressive actions and death tolls [America v World]. It's easy to see that America is in the wrong if you consider ending a life a bad action.

Some opinions -
I am from Washington state, the general tone about America here is grim. From what I have been able to discern my and the lives of many of my peers are well below the standards of most developed countries. In the past 4 years quality of life has lowered dramatically. The problem with America right now seems to be apathy and lack of education/information together with exploitation of the lower classes. The majority of the American public has been increasingly intentionally cut off from both education and information while the government collects data on everyone. Declining standards of living leave people with less free time and less energy to think about the picture outside daily life. The educated and informed portion of America realizes how terrible it has become but lacks the cohesion or drive to do anything because the government is so entrenched it would require astronomical effort.

[gergnub]

Some opinions -
I am from Washington state, the general tone about America here is grim. From what I have been able to discern my and the lives of many of my peers are well below the standards of most developed countries. In the past 4 years quality of life has lowered dramatically. The problem with America right now seems to be apathy and lack of education/information together with exploitation of the lower classes. The majority of the American public has been increasingly intentionally cut off from both education and information while the government collects data on everyone. Declining standards of living leave people with less free time and less energy to think about the picture outside daily life. The educated and informed portion of America realizes how terrible it has become but lacks the cohesion or drive to do anything because the government is so entrenched it would require astronomical effort.

+1 to this. sad times :(

[Farore]

But you also know I'm right that if the US stayed out of all of that crap, people would cry about how we're ignoring problems we have the power to help solve. It's lose-lose getting involved with anyone for anything. It's why I hate politics altogether. If we're going to be hated for getting involved and hated for not getting involved, personally I'd choose not getting involved and letting them sort out their own ****. There is so much we can do to make our own country better, we should just focus on that since we aren't wanted elsewhere.

EXACTLY how I feel. Every bit of it. You should run for president.

[idiocy]

But you also know I'm right that if the US stayed out of all of that crap, people would cry about how we're ignoring problems we have the power to help solve. It's lose-lose getting involved with anyone for anything. It's why I hate politics altogether. If we're going to be hated for getting involved and hated for not getting involved, personally I'd choose not getting involved and letting them sort out their own ****. There is so much we can do to make our own country better, we should just focus on that since we aren't wanted elsewhere.

You mean to say, you don't really have an argument but feel like you should win regardless.
The myth about the Atomic bomb being necessary to force Japan's surrender only exists in propaganda written after the fact. It was a total war that targeted civilian centers for bombardment, and no one who was in command showed the slightest bit of hesitation when using a new weapon to accomplish the same ends.

Japan approached the Soviets wanting to surrender in June of 45, provided they could keep their Emperor, which Truman knew about. He was either willing to drop the bombs to get rid of the Emperor or he wanted to drop them to flex his muscles in front of the soviets (who his top generals including Patton wanted to invade directly after Germany's surrender)

Didn't know this part, but I figured the bombs were mostly to make sure Japan couldn't become a Soviet ally, as much of SE Asia could have following WW2 given the rise of communist powers.

[Alawa]

I blame society

[Crazyguy]

I'm beginning to believe that the best attitude that we can take as Americans is just to kick the teeth out of anyone who runs their mouths about America. Nobody likes us... fine. I would rather go down fighting then try to appease!

[JinXy]

Big government and the Federal Reserve. That's what went wrong.

[dayboo1]

It's the greatest country on earth only if you don't live here. Government takes all, owns all, taxes all and then some more that you don't have. Now the new Obama-care health will charge you a fine if you don't buy insurance from the only 3 companies it sees fit to offer insurance. The USA, in the past has ran over socialism like Russia, made them become a democracy government. NOW, the US government wants to control all by laws or fines. IRS has become over bearing in its actions. Now the NSA has spied on the whole world including the people of the US. IT SUCKS>>>

[crease]

Britain is in a worse spot than the US.

Infact Britain is in a worse spot than Greece for the exact reason that Greece's economy had a meltdown. Britain owes more as a percentage of GDP than any other country in the world, people are only just starting to realise this. As soon as interest rates start to rise the govt. will be forced to print off silly amounts of money to pay off the interest rates alone, still we will be borrowing more at increasingly higher interest rates.

Anybody with basic economic understanding knows where this leads, higher inflation. [Might aswell move to Zimbabwe, atleast they accept dollars now.] Inflation forces the govt. to pay even greater interest rates to reduce that inflation and werestuck in a cycle then, since greater interest rates means more borrowing and more printing. \o.