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Thread: How did USA become such a messed up country?

  1. #46
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    We are practically third world in education, healthcare, and welfare. Standard of living is in free fall. As for the debt that you're so afraid of, it cannot be paid off. The money to repay it simply does not exist in our system. The GDP is an inflated economic measurement as the same dollar can be counted thousands of different times as it trades hands and is, in no way, a measurement of the money we actually have. The whole thing was designed to fail as it can only function in a state of continuous expansion. The founding fathers would turn in their graves if they saw what we had going here.

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    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    There have been 3 suicides in my neighborhood this past month.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by octobrev View Post
    We are practically third world in education, healthcare, and welfare. Standard of living is in free fall. As for the debt that you're so afraid of, it cannot be paid off. The money to repay it simply does not exist in our system. The GDP is an inflated economic measurement as the same dollar can be counted thousands of different times as it trades hands and is, in no way, a measurement of the money we actually have. The whole thing was designed to fail as it can only function in a state of continuous expansion. The founding fathers would turn in their graves if they saw what we had going here.
    this is not true, if all of our rich/wealthy/powerful people stuck all their money into our deficit we woudl probably be near 0 and close to positivie balance, (i mean EVERYONE, anyone who nets millions a f#cking quarter)

  4. #49
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    No you are mistaken. Wouldn't begin to cover it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octobrev View Post
    We are practically third world in education, healthcare, and welfare. Standard of living is in free fall. As for the debt that you're so afraid of, it cannot be paid off. The money to repay it simply does not exist in our system. The GDP is an inflated economic measurement as the same dollar can be counted thousands of different times as it trades hands and is, in no way, a measurement of the money we actually have. The whole thing was designed to fail as it can only function in a state of continuous expansion. The founding fathers would turn in their graves if they saw what we had going here.

    Dude i expected better from you
    If you think we are "practically third world" go check out a third world country, then maybe you'll see the difference.
    Just because the money doesnt exist does not mean it cannot be paid off. think of it like this, i make 50k a year, i buy a house that cost 500k, does that mean i cannot get out of debt?

    Reducing the debt is a fairly simple task, but we would have to change an open our minds to some different more dynamic ideas.

    We could set a 5% national sales tax
    We could raise the retirement age, its not like the majority of workers do physically demanding jobs anymore
    We could open the borders
    We could listen to the gang of six, and revamp the tax code<----- My Favorite

  6. #51
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    "Just because the money doesnt exist does not mean it cannot be paid off."
    I want everybody to reflect on this line for a minute.
    The people making "millions a quarter" do so because of a little thing called capital investment. They're making that money because they bought that house for you and you're going to spend your entire life paying it back with interest. Now, if they were to spend that capital on the national debt, you lose your house and your stupid family rots on the streets. Not paying the debt is the only way to sustain our standard of living because all the money that exists in the system is a consequence of debt.
    In terms of the rankings, we are basically third world. It's just going to take a few years for the whole thing to collapse and the standard of living to drop to its rightful place. I'll be in Norway in 2 years so good luck here everyone.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by octobrev View Post
    We are practically third world in education, healthcare, and welfare. Standard of living is in free fall. As for the debt that you're so afraid of, it cannot be paid off. The money to repay it simply does not exist in our system. The GDP is an inflated economic measurement as the same dollar can be counted thousands of different times as it trades hands and is, in no way, a measurement of the money we actually have. The whole thing was designed to fail as it can only function in a state of continuous expansion. The founding fathers would turn in their graves if they saw what we had going here.
    octo pretty much nailed it here I think.
    I kinda fear the moment USA is no longer able to sustain itself by canibalizing its population and 3rd world resources, oil in particular. Once that sh*t hits the fan you dont want to be close to them or their huge military.

  8. #53
    Forum Fanatic freemehul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoffi View Post
    Where did it go wrong?

    I mean, no social security, no health coverage, 40 million poor, plenty more trailer trash, a middle class withering away, religious fanatics taking over, mad cowboy presidents and ignorance flourishing.


    What do you think went wrong?
    it started to go wrong when they printed the first dollar bill

    I'm all for free... anything and so on, but not when it comes to a free masonic handshake. Corruption is the biggest impediment to civil liberties and the eye of providence is a telltale sign of it.
    Corruption is a serious impediment to civil liberties.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by octobrev View Post
    "Just because the money doesnt exist does not mean it cannot be paid off."
    I want everybody to reflect on this line for a minute.
    The people making "millions a quarter" do so because of a little thing called capital investment. They're making that money because they bought that house for you and you're going to spend your entire life paying it back with interest. Now, if they were to spend that capital on the national debt, you lose your house and your stupid family rots on the streets. Not paying the debt is the only way to sustain our standard of living because all the money that exists in the system is a consequence of debt.
    In terms of the rankings, we are basically third world. It's just going to take a few years for the whole thing to collapse and the standard of living to drop to its rightful place. I'll be in Norway in 2 years so good luck here everyone.
    If people making "a million a quarter" gave more income tax, it would have zero effect on you possessing a home. Pay to executives of fortune 500 companies has grown considerably the last 50 years, having almost no correlation to the change in profit created by the companies that those executives work for. It may affect discretionary spending on the part of the executives, but the companies themselves would maintain the same portfolios(maybe a few less 20million dollar homes, which is a real thing)

    As for share holders of the major companies that buy you your house, most of them are conglomerations of people in funds who have no interest in you owning the house at all, as those are often inestments that exist for 30 years or so, and they are very unlikely to hold that stock for even a fraction of that amount of time. Regardless, taxing the incredibly wealthy investor will affect his discretionary spending, not his investment spending. This will obviously have the effect of negatively impacting those sectors he would normally spend money in, but the effect of that isn't nearly as far reaching.

    Norway, btw, isn't too bad of an example of how much a progressive tax structure in which funds are used for high impact investments into the value of the citizenry(health care, education) destroys your country(answer: not too much).
    Last edited by Topsy; 06-03-2012 at 19:42.

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    Isn't discretionary spending the reason 80%+ of the consumer goods market exists, and 100% of luxury goods? That's a lot of industries that wouldn't be around otherwise. The impact of high taxation is probably pretty high. Not to mention investment dollars that wouldn't be around either.
    Last edited by Meeni; 07-03-2012 at 00:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topsy View Post
    If people making "a million a quarter" gave more income tax, it would have zero effect on you possessing a home.

    Of course it would have an impact! It would mean more money to help those who are less fortunate, thus dragging them up from the mud making them middle class citizens rather than white trash ghetto sh*t. Social mobility! But as long as people are held down like they are in the States, they will forever be held down except for a few sunshine stories once in a while to boost the egoes of some rich people who "help them" out of their misery.
    ABS vs Rangers


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    Quote Originally Posted by stoffi View Post
    Of course it would have an impact! It would mean more money to help those who are less fortunate, thus dragging them up from the mud making them middle class citizens rather than white trash ghetto sh*t. Social mobility! But as long as people are held down like they are in the States, they will forever be held down except for a few sunshine stories once in a while to boost the egoes of some rich people who "help them" out of their misery.

    I have to respectfully disagree with everything you have said

    say what you want, say what you will. If you are not an american or have not visited our country then do not be so biased and quick handed to judge. (white trash ghetto) Your attempts to even prevent an argument is so infinitesimal that you make my generalization look like an educated opinion. that is how bad you are making your self look (forgive me for insulting, however, if he wants to troll and act like a jerk then this arrogant and ignorant person should get a life) like a fool!

    It is sad. all you want to do is dirt talk us and downgrade us? really?

  13. #58
    News Correspondent flutterby's Avatar
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    I'm American and I am inclined to agree with Stoffi.
    Quote Originally Posted by VT2
    I should get a medal for all the common sense I highlight on a daily basis.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutterby View Post
    I'm American and I am inclined to agree with Stoffi.
    then you are of the generation who seeks pity and look to the government to fix everything

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    Not being mean. Sorry, I do not know you. And I do not want to judge you in such a way.

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