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Thread: How did USA become such a messed up country?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kemia View Post
    then you are of the generation who seeks pity and look to the government to fix everything
    I've read this entire thread and the above quote is the truest statement here.

    Stoffi and Flutterby, do you guys know why America is the greatest country ever? And still is?

    Because if you put your mind to it, you can still achieve anything in the US. If you disagree then i feel sad for you. Money isnt the problem, greed isnt the problem, people with power is not the problem, the government is not the problem, the problem lies in people inable to work at what they love and to be happy themselves. So instead of working, they complain about sh*t. Stop giving up + feeling so hopeless, and thinking theres a problem with everything; lifes not supposed to be so easy, imperfection is what makes the world beautiful...

    The problem is you.
    Last edited by KuhaN; 12-03-2012 at 08:45.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azartyn View Post
    Obviously you people that dont live in the US have no clue how many welfare programs we have here and what amount money it costs people. There are over 40million people on food stamps. Don't get me wrong, I understand people need a hand every once in a while but people live off this their whole life. Another thing you ignorant people have no clue is about the tax structure in the US. Over 48% of the people contribute NOTHING to income taxes and a lot of them actually get a REFUND even though they contribute NOTHING. Our corporate income tax rate is the HIGHEST IN THE WORLD. The government even taxes you and family when YOU DIE(aka a death tax). We pay approximately .48/gal of TAX to the federal government who do NOTHING but cause oil companies problems. Also, you people talking about "alternative energy" it is not feasible and cost twice as much if not more. Let me say this very clear for you ignorant people.....the GOVERNMENT, especially the current administration is doing NOTHING but making things HARDER for people and is trying to turn the US into Greece. Debate me with facts to prove me wrong NOT opinion. If you can.

    Oh and Stoffi...you are so full of s**t about if you are born into poverty you will stay there. People born into poverty here CHOOSE to stay there and game the system. In what country do you know where someone in poverty has a flat screen TV hanging on the wall, driving around in a Cadillac carrying a cell phone. Yeah, sounds like poverty to me. Hard work and personal responsibility will get you out of poverty. Have facts please instead of conjecture and just flat out ignorance.

    You disgrace your American fellows and help build up the stereotype the world has about Americans, the stereotype of the ignorant cowboy. "Who cares about knowledge, eh? We are the best anyways"

    As Flutterby says, what about those that work two jobs and still have to go on welfare? There's 12.8 million unemployed people in the States, most of them unwillingly unemployed. 22% of all children in the US are poor children, despite having parents who work their arses off with 2 jobs and a wage no Western European would touch. I'd like to see you tell them that they have a choice.
    In addition, The official poverty measure has been criticized for not accounting for several factors that can affect a family's economic well-being and for not having been updated, except for inflation, for four decades. Aka, the real figure is probably a lot higher.

    The US can only be compared with former Soviet countries in Eastern Europe in this.


    The notion about poor people being lazy was a term that lived through the Dark Ages and only just disappeared in the 19th century. But for people without history, it's hard to learn from past mistakes. Poor people in the US work several jobs but the minimum wage is just too low, they can't afford proper food, they can't afford healthcare, they can't afford to educate their children. What hope do they have? Their children will most likely end up in the same situation as themselves because you have to PAY to go to uni, and they are not likely to finish High School.

    In Norway, university is free, you get 1100 dollars per month in scholarship/loan(you get the scholarship only if you pass the exams) by the government, investing in your education so that you may provide for it when you are finished, and help Norway prosper. We have no minimum wage but I don't know about any jobs which pay less than 20 dollars per hour, thus making the "poor" able to stay with us in society, paying taxes, buying goods, fueling the economy, lowering crime, etc.
    We don't have crime except for junkies, Eastern Europeans gangs/groups who visit and certain immigrant groups who rape our daughters and rob our sons.



    NO ONE CHOOSES to stay in poverty. NO ONE! It's a myth existing in your head and in many Americans' heads. Those of us who know a bit about society and history can see further than our own noses, not repeating the errors of those before us again and again, as you are.


    And yes, many people don't pay enough taxes in the US. I'm sure you've heard about the Buffet Tax which Obama is trying to impose. The fact that Buffet's secretary has to pay a lot more than Buffet(in relative terms) is just wow....

    Also, you don't know a lot about other countries if you think taxation is bad in the US. E.g. taxation of the dead is quite normal, and your company taxes are NOT high.

    Hard work and personal responsibility will NOT get you out of poverty and poverty is now at its highest in a long time. They just need some social mobility.



    Quote Originally Posted by KuhaN View Post
    I've read this entire thread and the above quote is the truest statement here.

    Stoffi and Flutterby, do you guys know why America is the greatest country ever? And still is?

    Because if you put your mind to it, you can still achieve anything in the US. If you disagree then i feel sad for you. Money isnt the problem, greed isnt the problem, people with power is not the problem, the government is not the problem, the problem lies in people inable to work at what they love and to be happy themselves. So instead of working, they complain about sh*t. Stop giving up + feeling so hopeless, and thinking theres a problem with everything; lifes not supposed to be so easy, imperfection is what makes the world beautiful...

    The problem is you.


    That's a myth. Land of the free and the brave. It used to be true and is still true if you got money. It is a lot easier to succeed in European countries where you don't start off as low as you do in the US. If the starting point is lower, it will be harder to succeed.

    America is definitively not the greatest country ever. You should go study some history. :) Also, when you read history, remember that all great countries fall down eventually, often from within when corruption and greed takes over, as it is in the US today. It happened to Sparta, it happened to Rome.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forwyn View Post
    The first thread I click on has someone *****ing about a mod.

    Man, censorship sucks. Now I remember why I left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Forwyn View Post
    I know, right? And you know, anything thats off-topic in a thread as broad as "the problems of country X" must be immediately deleted. Don't contribute anything else to the thread, simply remark on a specific posting's status as off-topic. Good job, clown.
    Does anyone know what this guy is talking about? I don't see any moderation in this thread....
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHaran View Post
    Does anyone know what this guy is talking about? I don't see any moderation in this thread....
    That guy is just here to troll, not participating in any discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoffi View Post
    That guy is just here to troll, not participating in any discussion.
    he seen the thread and probably ignored 90% of it and did not read any of it and is here to b!tch and complain and all that good stuff xD I.E. post counts. anyways, i will get back to everyone in a few days alot of replies have been added and i must read them accordingly and get some thought and structure on this to give a rebuttal

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    Quote Originally Posted by flutterby View Post
    I'm of the generation that doesn't give a damn. The government won't fix anything until it is wiped clean and their roles rewritten. There is no will to do so at this point.
    So I sit here and watch and form opinions. We can talk about things until our faces turn blue but until there is a drastic change, it's not going to be any better. We've
    been slipping down the slope for decades because (in my opinion) of partisan politics, they're too worried about their party and not worried enough about what is happening
    to the country and the people.



    There is a tax on gas here. I'm not sure what the percentage is, if it is state mandated or federalized.


    yet again the people can change the government and the world.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kemia View Post
    yet again the people can change the government and the world.
    As individuals, no they can't. Even the occupy movement failed because there was no plan behind it.
    They were just trying to get the issue in the spotlight, which they did but it stalled there because
    there was no plan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magn View Post
    I think industrialized nations need to get off the oil wagon, period.

    Nevermind climate change, oil is a limited ressource which is in great part concentrated in a politically unstable areas of the world.

    Given our current infrastructure, if the price of oil soared too high, our economy would collapse and a lot of people would starve to death (or freeze to death in the winter for northern nations) and generally have no means of transportation.

    Peak oil is a real issue and looking at Republican/Conservative policies, it seems like they will do something about it... when the problem hits us right in the face.

    That's not proactive politics, these are politics of reaction and with the knowledge base that we have, we can do a lot better than that.

    Sure, renewable alternative energy sources would cost more in the short term, but then how much is the stability and long term well being of the current prosperity we are experiencing worth to you?

    For my part, I'd rather have a few less gysmos, but be guaranteed that there will be food on the table 15 years from now.

    The problem with modern economy is that it gets hooked on useless crap rather than what we urgently need.

    i would disagree, we have survived for thousands of years without such uses of tools, many of them would die simply because they give up. If it came down to it and we went into post apocalyptic would you be the one holding the sword, hunting,, killing, defending yourself and making sure you survive?

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    Quote Originally Posted by flutterby View Post
    As individuals, no they can't. Even the occupy movement failed because there was no plan behind it.
    They were just trying to get the issue in the spotlight, which they did but it stalled there because
    there was no plan.

    Yeah true, good point. Yet again even thought, look at the impact the individual made (a lot of antics and funniness on the news and worldwide ;) ) the fact is, if you take from his mistake and learn one person really can change the world. And I do not care what skeptics say im not letting go of my dream.

  10. #85
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    The individuals made us look more ignorant to the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KuhaN View Post
    Because if you put your mind to it, you can still achieve anything in the US. If you disagree then i feel sad for you. Money isnt the problem, greed isnt the problem, people with power is not the problem, the government is not the problem, the problem lies in people inable to work at what they love and to be happy themselves. So instead of working, they complain about sh*t. Stop giving up + feeling so hopeless, and thinking theres a problem with everything; lifes not supposed to be so easy, imperfection is what makes the world beautiful...
    Actually, upward mobility has been better in Canada than in the US for some time.

    Sure, some people are rock solid and will manage to get to the top no matter in which crappy situation they are put in, but you are looking at less than 1% of the population here.

    The self-made man is a myth.

    In reality, you need a support infrastructure in place for people to live up to their full potential.

    It is a "the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts" situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemia View Post
    i would disagree, we have survived for thousands of years without such uses of tools, many of them would die simply because they give up. If it came down to it and we went into post apocalyptic would you be the one holding the sword, hunting,, killing, defending yourself and making sure you survive?
    In the short term, a post-apocaliptic scenario would involve a bunch of ex-cops/military holding the local mall at gun point.

    A modern city is a like a concrete desert and is highly dependent on food imports.

    But sure, I would fight for my survival like anybody else would. You are naive if you believe that most people would give up on their immediate survival, lay down and die.

    However, why do you fantasize about living in the gutter so much?

    You fancy dying of old age at 35 or worrying solely about what you'll put in your mouth tomorrow rather than engage in higher level philosophical considerations?

    Quote Originally Posted by tris06 View Post
    I would agree with the americans comments on one thing.

    Power Alternatives are too exspensive and therefore not cost effective compared to other forms.

    I think the move to electric cars is a good move for short distance driving.. aka under 200km round trips. Then this brings up the issue of how to generate the electricity. Yes over time we should move away from fossil fuels which like oil it has a finite resource.

    I am very supportive of more nuclear and hopefully in the not long term future fusion energy.
    Just for those who want to know while fission engergy..aka Nuclear power. Fussion is the same as what happens in our sun. While sounds little futuristic they are building a world first trail power station in France.

    Now assuming proper funding nuclear presently can be very safe form of energy and few have ever died from nuclear disasters. I am sad to see my Australian government which is far more socialist than say USA democrats dont even consider this.
    I think a feasible scenario involving renewable energy would involve a combination of using energy more efficiently along with relying on several different sources of energy rather than 1 (wind, solar, hydro, etc, etc).

    You know where the state of the art solar technology lies atm? In China.

    They have a village over there that is 88% solar powered.

    We need to move away from petroleum BEFORE alternative energy sources become more cost effective, because by then, the cost effectiveness of petroleum might take a free fall and we'll want to jump ship ASAP, not in 10-20 years while the infrastructure is being setup.
    Last edited by Magn; 12-03-2012 at 17:18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magn View Post
    Actually, upward mobility has been better in Canada than in the US for some time.

    Sure, some people are rock solid and will manage to get to the top no matter in which crappy situation they are put in, but you are looking at less than 1% of the population here.

    The self-made man is a myth.

    In reality, you need a support infrastructure in place for people to live up to their full potential.

    It is a "the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts" situation.



    In the short term, a post-apocaliptic scenario would involve a bunch of ex-cops/military holding the local mall at gun point.

    A modern city is a like a concrete desert and is highly dependent on food imports.

    But sure, I would fight for my survival like anybody else would. You are naive if you believe that most people would give up on their immediate survival, lay down and die.

    However, why do you fantasize about living in the gutter so much?

    You fancy dying of old age at 35 or worrying solely about what you'll put in your mouth tomorrow rather than engage in higher level philosophical considerations?



    I think a feasible scenario involving renewable energy would involve a combination of using energy more efficiently along with relying on several different sources of energy rather than 1 (wind, solar, hydro, etc, etc).

    You know where the state of the art solar technology lies atm? In China.

    They have a village over there that is 88% solar powered.

    We need to move away from petroleum BEFORE alternative energy sources become more cost effective, because by then, the cost effectiveness of petroleum might take a free fall and we'll want to jump ship ASAP, not in 10-20 years while the infrastructure is being setup.

    I never suggested anything about dying. I said giving up (not the same thing)
    Alright, maybe that is contradictory; yet, living to fight another day was the point I wanted to get across. Cops and military personnel holding malls at gun point and grocery stores, blocking off roadways, highways, and yeah im sure there will be lots of bloodshed and war amongst even the neighbors. the fact is, when youdo this and intact the violence of post apocalyptic world it is what they want you to do.
    giving up is fighting against one another and killing each other instead of attempting to come together and find a solution, they want you to fight they are causing it now. don't you see it?

  13. #88
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    That's a myth. Land of the free and the brave. It used to be true and is still true if you got money. It is a lot easier to succeed in European countries where you don't start off as low as you do in the US. If the starting point is lower, it will be harder to succeed.

    America is definitively not the greatest country ever. You should go study some history. :) Also, when you read history, remember that all great countries fall down eventually, often from within when corruption and greed takes over, as it is in the US today. It happened to Sparta, it happened to Rome.
    Yes, it will be harder to succeed, but not impossible, so it's not a myth.

    Imo, America is the greatest country ever.

    Yes, all great countries fall down eventually. That's something we'll have to deal with in the future if it's inevitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magn View Post
    Actually, upward mobility has been better in Canada than in the US for some time.

    Sure, some people are rock solid and will manage to get to the top no matter in which crappy situation they are put in, but you are looking at less than 1% of the population here.

    The self-made man is a myth.

    In reality, you need a support infrastructure in place for people to live up to their full potential.

    It is a "the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts" situation.
    And the "99% of the population" bit is where the problem lies. Survival of the fittest buddy, and the unfit die. There is a population crisis going on in the planet, obviously Earth will not be able to sustain billions of people for too long. Better get off your ass and start acting, instead of wasting your time on here *****ing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stoffi View Post
    You disgrace your American fellows and help build up the stereotype the world has about Americans, the stereotype of the ignorant cowboy. "Who cares about knowledge, eh? We are the best anyways"

    As Flutterby says, what about those that work two jobs and still have to go on welfare? There's 12.8 million unemployed people in the States, most of them unwillingly unemployed. 22% of all children in the US are poor children, despite having parents who work their arses off with 2 jobs and a wage no Western European would touch. I'd like to see you tell them that they have a choice.
    In addition, The official poverty measure has been criticized for not accounting for several factors that can affect a family's economic well-being and for not having been updated, except for inflation, for four decades. Aka, the real figure is probably a lot higher.

    The US can only be compared with former Soviet countries in Eastern Europe in this.


    The notion about poor people being lazy was a term that lived through the Dark Ages and only just disappeared in the 19th century. But for people without history, it's hard to learn from past mistakes. Poor people in the US work several jobs but the minimum wage is just too low, they can't afford proper food, they can't afford healthcare, they can't afford to educate their children. What hope do they have? Their children will most likely end up in the same situation as themselves because you have to PAY to go to uni, and they are not likely to finish High School.

    In Norway, university is free, you get 1100 dollars per month in scholarship/loan(you get the scholarship only if you pass the exams) by the government, investing in your education so that you may provide for it when you are finished, and help Norway prosper. We have no minimum wage but I don't know about any jobs which pay less than 20 dollars per hour, thus making the "poor" able to stay with us in society, paying taxes, buying goods, fueling the economy, lowering crime, etc.
    We don't have crime except for junkies, Eastern Europeans gangs/groups who visit and certain immigrant groups who rape our daughters and rob our sons.



    NO ONE CHOOSES to stay in poverty. NO ONE! It's a myth existing in your head and in many Americans' heads. Those of us who know a bit about society and history can see further than our own noses, not repeating the errors of those before us again and again, as you are.


    And yes, many people don't pay enough taxes in the US. I'm sure you've heard about the Buffet Tax which Obama is trying to impose. The fact that Buffet's secretary has to pay a lot more than Buffet(in relative terms) is just wow....

    Also, you don't know a lot about other countries if you think taxation is bad in the US. E.g. taxation of the dead is quite normal, and your company taxes are NOT high.

    Hard work and personal responsibility will NOT get you out of poverty and poverty is now at its highest in a long time. They just need some social mobility.







    That's a myth. Land of the free and the brave. It used to be true and is still true if you got money. It is a lot easier to succeed in European countries where you don't start off as low as you do in the US. If the starting point is lower, it will be harder to succeed.

    America is definitively not the greatest country ever. You should go study some history. :) Also, when you read history, remember that all great countries fall down eventually, often from within when corruption and greed takes over, as it is in the US today. It happened to Sparta, it happened to Rome.
    Stoffi, you do not have your facts straight whatsoever. 22% of children in this country are in poverty? Really? They have flat screeen TVs, cell phones, their parents have TWO CARS. Poverty huh? Really? How about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS and if you cant afford to have a baby KEEP YOUR DAMN LEGS CLOSED.
    Again, have FACTS not what you THINK is correct.

    Oh and if the European countries are SO much better then why are they all going bankrupt and trying to implement austerity measures? Greece, Portugal, Spain, France, England? Any of them ring a bell. What happens when you take someone's freebies away? They riot and throw Molotov cocktails at police officers. The ONLY strong country in the European union right now is Germany.

    Stoffi...FACT - The US DOES have the HIGHEST CORPORATE tax rate in the WORLD. It used to be Japan but they just lowered theirs. Please get the truth before you make yourself look more foolish. I live here, I used to own a business here and I KNOW what I paid in taxes.

    Let me ask you a few simple questions Stoffi, since you're such a genius and have the solution to all the worlds problems....
    1. Why do 50% of Americans pay ZERO income tax and the top 5% pay 80% of ALL the taxes?
    2. Why do single women keep having babies if they cant afford the ones they have now?
    3. If so many people are in poverty...whats going to happen when they run out of OTHERS PEOPLES MONEY? Where do they get their money from then? Damn sure isnt the government. The government doesn't PRODUCE ANYTHING!!(except dependents) and FORCIBLY TAKES what people actually do WORK FOR.

    I have some more questions for your brain, but lets see how well you answer these first.

    OMG! I just reread your post...the BUFFET TAX? REALLY? LMFAO! Shows just how ignorant you really are. You must watch MSNBC. The taxes Buffet's secretary pays are INCOME TAXES. The taxes Warren Buffet pays are CAPITAL GAINS TAX(15%) from money he earned that was ALREADY TAXED at 33%. So Buffet is paying taxes on money he earns TWICE. *shakes head* Also, if Buffet was SO interested in paying taxes why is Berkshire Hathaway (Buffets Company) fighting so they dont have to pay like $1 billion in BACK taxes? Hypocrisy? I think so! Again, you show your ignorance.
    Last edited by Azartyn; 12-03-2012 at 23:23.

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    Magn, what happened in Europe last winter with "wind" power? I recall the windmill motors freezing up and they had to use electricity to defrost them..yeah if I remember correctly a few people died. Why is solar state of the art in China? Because they pay their people 1.50 a week in wages. Is that why they made Nobel Prize winner disappear? Just so you say Im lying...heres the article.



    Monday, February 6, 2012
    Europe Freezes, People Die Like Flies
    Europe baffled after spending 20 years getting ready for global warming, leaving them virtually unprepared for winters of this severity. Their wind turbines are frozen solid, meaning their energy strategy to heat homes with electricity instead of traditional oil is just another tragic casualty of the absolute junk science of globowarmthinkery. They need to drag Michael Mann behind a snowplow naked through Belgium while starving toddlers spit hard snap loogies at him in passing. When they get to the city limits they should force him to swim the Salton Sea. With it's high saline content I am sure it will be as warm as a sauna bath from the ambient air temperature and he should have no difficulty making it to the other side.

    The inhabitants of Europe will no doubt enjoy this lovely temperate spring thaw because the cold that is coming is going to make this look like the Bermuda islands in the middle of June


    or how about another?

    In one spectacular incident yesterday a 300ft wind turbine exploded in flames as it was buffeted by the high winds.

    Another wind turbine was completely blown down on Wednesday, raising questions about the ability of wind farms to cope with the weather.

    The flaming ?2million wind turbine was in Ardrossan, North Ayrshire, Scotland. Witnesses said its blades were locked at the time, because the National Grid would be unable to cope with a sudden power surge.

    Photographer Stuart McMahon, who took the incredible image, said: ‘The centre of the turbine caught fire first and the flames spread to the covering of the blades.

    ‘There was burning debris being swept off in the wind and across the fields. These are huge structures and to see one on fire was a spectacular sight.’

    The turbine knocked over by high winds near Coldingham in the Borders caused several homes to be evacuated and a road to be closed.




    Ok...you must live in Bizarro world or something. HOW can you move away from the main source of power in the world BEFORE something else becomes cheaper? If the free market could do it easier and thought it was a better solution there would be MANY MANY MANY people doing it.
    Last edited by Azartyn; 12-03-2012 at 23:44.

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