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Thread: Science Max

  1. #1
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    Science Max

    Just curious if the info is avail or anyone just happens to know what the max science would be avail, excluding all modifiers including racial and buildings. So, no libraries, non undead/human, etc etc....Just base numbers for what max sciences (percentages of course, actual books vary, as I am aware) would be in that scenario? Or if perhaps there is a math equation that would apply to be able to figure this out would work as well.

    Thanks for the help

  2. #2
    Sir Postalot Ordray's Avatar
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    Afaik, there is no max to science.
    Retired at one time but no longer retired.

  3. #3
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    I think there was a science cap implemented at some ridiculously high level when the current science progression model was introduced as a failsafe just in case some province tried to break the game by landropping to under 10 acres, but it's so high that no one would reach it under normal circumstances. I might be wrong, though...
    Aside from that, there comes a point where further investment in science produces results so infinitesimal that they have zero effect, though this can be remedied by being bigger of course. Then there is the practical limit of science investment, but I don't think you're interested in that...

  4. #4
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    There is no cap.

  5. #5
    Enthusiast Twyla's Avatar
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    From what I've found, there is no true max/cap to Sciences, the benefits being based on a key of SQRT(Books per Acre). 5x Base Effect for 25 BpA, 10x Base Effect for 100 BpA, 20x Base Effect for 400 BpA, etc.

    In brief, you have to invest four times the Books per Acre to double the effect.
    The only people who never make mistakes are those who never try to accomplish anything.

  6. #6
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    Ahh ok that sorta makes sense then...I was hitting a point where it seemed I wasn't getting very much impact on science, if any, for the books I was putting in(Couldn't tell though). But from the sounds of it there is no max, just the growth potential becomes exponentially more costly and, consequently, far more time consuming the more pumped you seem to be, which would explain why I thought I was still seeing small increases in my science at this point, but very very little.

    Thanks for the answers guys!!

  7. #7
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    Keep Pumping. Beat Jdorje...

    ** Effects Summary (Known Science Only) **
    686.1% Income
    336.2% Building Effectiveness
    336.2% Population Limits
    1,118.3% Food Production
    3% Gains in Combat
    388.9% Thievery Effectiveness
    639.7% Magic Effectiveness & Rune Production

  8. #8
    Sir Postalot Ordray's Avatar
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    Wow... that would be nice :P
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  9. #9
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    I wish I had his stats at the end of that age lol

  10. #10
    Sir Postalot Ordray's Avatar
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    I wish that I had his stats now :P
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  11. #11
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    I already have his military sci!
    Support email: utopiasupport@utopia-game.com <- please use this and don't just PM me| Account Deleted/Inactive | Utopia Facebook Page | #tactics <-- click to join IRC|
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  12. #12
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    hahaha bishop!

    in response to nooblet: "Then there is the practical limit of science investment, but I don't think you're interested in that... "

    whats ur thoughts on that?
    ive been looking at angel's science formatter in regards to the diminishing returns, and i think as a sage getting 200 bpa in an area is about as high as you really need to go. I mean after that you can still run sustained or whatever or lower, but i dont think dumping tons more money into science when ur already @ 200 bpa is worth it.

    at least thats the personal limit i set for meeself based on looking at the returns.

  13. #13
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    I was sad the age I tested gains sci on gen - I hit +125% gains... but this doesn't let you learn targets above the cap anyway. If it had, I was going to try a land drop trick to hit +500% gains... then steal 100% of a target's science. No go - I think it is 16.66% for a learn cap? Less than 1/3, for sure, which made it not worth it.

    Remember science has NW. So while there is no "cap" in the sense that higher = more sci... there is a "cap" in the sense that eventually the NW will hurt more than the sci helps. With a bit of fiddling.... that cap is over 10k bpa in housing alone (sage, 30%+ libs), so there isn't much point worrying about it normally. Once you break 1k bpa, just keep dumping it as 1:1:3 into the "big 3" and you should never have "soft cap" troubles unless super chained.
    it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)

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  14. #14
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    whats ur formula for how much libraries to run again?

    assume sage, i believe it was 1% libs for every 100 bpa basically?

  15. #15
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    Generally yes, a sage wants around 1% libs per 100 bpa. It isn't really linear though, so I usually suggest this only apply between 500 bpa and 1,500 bpa - aka, don't bother below 5%, and don't go over 15% without doing the math yourself to see if it helps.

    It also is a little aggressive, and calibrated for the stronger sage... so requiring an extra 100 bpa or so is probably reasonable. (And stretch the last bit a bit extra too.) Thus I might actually propose (at a guess - there is no math backing this adjustment!) the following:
    600 => 4%
    700 => 5.5%
    800 => 7%
    900 => 8%
    1000 => 9%
    1100 => 10%
    1200 => 11%
    1300 => 12%
    1400 => 12.5%
    1500 => 13%
    1600 => 13.5%
    1700 => 14%
    1800 => 14.5%
    1900 => 14.75%
    2000 => 15%


    Or... build to the simple rule, know it is a tiny bit overbuilt... and don't bother with any for the first 24 hours of war. Kinda like homes - wait to see if you have a specific need for them before building them. If you can't get to max pop anyway they only gave you a bigger army to start with - like homes (pop cap effect), they aren't helping much anymore. (Though they still matter - yay income and BE!)

    A reminder that they are great if you take a chain because the sci spikes so much... and pop cap is king during a chain. More max pop = more offense to keep hitting with.
    it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)

    Think Different

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