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Thread: Regarding T/M's out growing their attackers

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Regarding T/M's out growing their attackers

    Just as the title suggests: I know many will have various opinions especially those of warring kingdoms. I want to know what everyone thinks about it.

    Most importantly I want to know the difference of outgrowing my attackers and staying out of their range, how much my damage/succession of operations on smaller provinces will be, as my kingdom says they suggest/prefer that the T/M's stay bigger than their attackers, mainly to be unbreakable? I still do not understand why this is preferrred over keeping them in the same range.

    Main questions I have are
    1. What would happen if a mage out grows the range of his attackers staying larger?
    2. What differences in % of succession of operations if the size difference is over 120% or say 75k NW?
    3. Are there game mechanics and forumlas that the developers use to calculate this? If so, do you know them?
    4. Another question of concern: What would you prefer your T/M in your kingdom be, larger/smaller, why and/or why not?

  2. #2
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    Oh I forgot to add one:

    How is damage affected if the T/M is larger than the attackers he plays with, how will the incursion rate of damage affect compared to if the T/M were within range of the attackers he had to target, do any of you know this from experience?

  3. #3
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    Unbreakable provinces are awesome in wars. A t/m isn't just about damage output, but as an economic role in funding and slaying dragons, and as an aider if they are able. Ideally your t/ms are going to target the enemy's largest provinces, both to hit the target closest to their range and because the largest provinces are the ones that need to be stopped from growing out of control.
    Provinces aren't static, and if your attackers are growing well they'll catch up to the beginning size of your t/ms. If the t/m runs out of targets and your attackers approach the size of your t/ms, then that usually means your kingdom is in a good position. Still, a t/m can succeed in ops hitting pretty far down for reasonable effects, even at 150% of target's nw of higher, and duration spells don't care about relative nw for the damage they inflict, only the duration and success rate. If you're that much bigger than any enemy attacker, then you're going to be practically immune to conquest.

    As to whether it's wise to make sure your t/ms are bigger than the average... I don't think it's necessary, and their starting size is not so important as long as they are large enough to target the enemy's largest provinces. Large t/ms are not a liability though, and the bigger they are able to get the more economic value they have. Making a province truly unbreakable is difficult, since conquest can whittle away acres and defenses faster than LL can replenish them, but if a war gets to that point where conquest is the best strategy then something has gone horribly wrong.

  4. #4
    Enthusiast Twyla's Avatar
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    Just my nickel on the matter...

    If I were setting up a warring Kingdom of 25 Provinces, I'd prefer to have five dedicated T/Ms: one on par with the biggest Attackers, one just a bit larger than the smallest Attackers, and the rest spread through the middle.

    Relative NW seems to affect the effectiveness of hostile spells and ops much along the same lines as attack gains. Having T/Ms spread out helps assure that they all have targets in the range where they're most effective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nooblet View Post
    Unbreakable provinces are awesome in wars. A t/m isn't just about damage output, but as an economic role in funding and slaying dragons, and as an aider if they are able. Ideally your t/ms are going to target the enemy's largest provinces, both to hit the target closest to their range and because the largest provinces are the ones that need to be stopped from growing out of control.
    Provinces aren't static, and if your attackers are growing well they'll catch up to the beginning size of your t/ms. If the t/m runs out of targets and your attackers approach the size of your t/ms, then that usually means your kingdom is in a good position. Still, a t/m can succeed in ops hitting pretty far down for reasonable effects, even at 150% of target's nw of higher, and duration spells don't care about relative nw for the damage they inflict, only the duration and success rate. If you're that much bigger than any enemy attacker, then you're going to be practically immune to conquest.

    As to whether it's wise to make sure your t/ms are bigger than the average... I don't think it's necessary, and their starting size is not so important as long as they are large enough to target the enemy's largest provinces. Large t/ms are not a liability though, and the bigger they are able to get the more economic value they have. Making a province truly unbreakable is difficult, since conquest can whittle away acres and defenses faster than LL can replenish them, but if a war gets to that point where conquest is the best strategy then something has gone horribly wrong.

    Ah I see, so while I am playing fae/mystic I am currently holding the top land in my kingdom, although none of us are above 1k acres, many of our attackers are at around the 750-800 acres and im at 900, I went from 10k to 130k in the past two days, the rate im growing I will be above my attackers in no time flat. So with your advice given and taken into retrospect. Do you think I should continue on the path I am on? (and when you say 150% of Nw size, suggesting im at 150k Nw now and my attackers targets are at say 85k Nw the succession rate and duration will be what a 50% fail? even if I have 3+ raw TPA and the bonus perso/race modifier, if you count my sci modifier I am at a +100% base effectiveness already with race/sci bonuses alone if you add the mystic bonus, double the effects) <--- it can be made for a deadly combination and as far as I mean for damamge, I mean more like fireballing/LL or so at this point of the game, if i were to outgrow the damage rate of NS/fireballing and crippling attacker targets in war would be kind of useless.

    That is what im getting at because if the T/M grows out of range the success rate/damage rate drops quite a bit yes? meaning for more failure than success compared to if I were to stay within their range to inflict the most damage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twyla View Post
    Just my nickel on the matter...

    If I were setting up a warring Kingdom of 25 Provinces, I'd prefer to have five dedicated T/Ms: one on par with the biggest Attackers, one just a bit larger than the smallest Attackers, and the rest spread through the middle.

    Relative NW seems to affect the effectiveness of hostile spells and ops much along the same lines as attack gains. Having T/Ms spread out helps assure that they all have targets in the range where they're most effective.
    I see, thanks for your input. Yeah I learned from experience if I outgrow my kingdom by too much i will be basically useless to using mana/stealth in war for them, only thing I could do is fund/slay dragons and aid (which this is helpful yet, it hinders my kingdom mates to take more attacks and have them outnumbered by the enemy kingdom)

    It's just as I said in my first post of this thread, the incursion rate of damage would be so nil its not worth; however, despite the fact of attacker sizes even if they are 200-300k larger than our attackers they can quad tap us, maybe only for 20-30 acres per hit, however, i was told once that in war land % gains of size don't matter as min will be 4% of land, so here is another question. Would it be better to have an attacker that is outgrown our kingdom's provinces by about 300-400k? maybe more or less, because not only is he unbreakable he can quad hit and even then, he can raze provinces for more acres, while yes this only deals damage to buildings and not destroy the acres (economically its very effective when being chained by say, 3-4 larger provinces razing and doing the ability of double/quad taps?)

    This is alot up for debate here.

  7. #7
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    I prefer to have top tier of the KD populated by tm's and few attackers to keep them reasonable safe in oow situations. If you outgrow your hiters too much you are free target oow and thats counterproductive, so its definitelly not advisable to grow out of their retal range.

    Some ppl like spreading tm's throughout the KD but I prefer oping power focused in top tier where it belong and where it will be in best nw range of its targets.

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    I like to post KuhaN's Avatar
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    The kd with more unbreakables wins the war, id say, greater than 75 percent of the time. Mainly because of economical reasons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KuhaN View Post
    The kd with more unbreakables wins the war, id say, greater than 75 percent of the time. Mainly because of economical reasons.
    Yeah, you have a good point, I have seen it done first hand before and the strategy played off as well. However, you leave your-self vulnerable to other larger provinces and no protection from yoru allied kingdoms or fellow kingdom mates as well, so your ending up with a solo play even if you put forth 90% of dragon funding and others such as destroying it etc etc. . .

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KuhaN View Post
    The kd with more unbreakables wins the war, id say, greater than 75 percent of the time. Mainly because of economical reasons.
    Depends on the level of war, MOST mid level wars can be won with fewer unbreakables as they are rarely used 100% effectively and hard fast chaining of the attackers can scare the kd into not wanting to war for 3+days when the unbreakable would really start to shine.

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    there are just so many variances to throw into the pot! -- which leaves it open ended for more opinions and suggestions/ mostly input from others giving feed back to my output! Which is good because the more data ( even though the best you can have is from experience and chalk it up as "blah blah") you gather the more knowledge you can gain of the topic and how to better address the situation right!?

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    I like to post Landro's Avatar
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    I played T/M last age. I tried to outgrow my kingdom by a small margin to remain UB during wars. My job was mainly to target their biggies and prevent them from growing UB. Once I was certain I wouldn't get broken I usually dropped my wages to 50% to generate extra cash for dragon funding
    This is my province. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    My province is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
    My province, without me, is useless. Without my province, I am useless.
    I must attack hard with my province. I must attack harder than my enemy who is trying to pk me. I must pk him before he pk's me. I will...

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