Max Gain Strategy

[bluebear]

Either way, dropping their nw also drops their land. There's usually a fatter target available while chaining...

I dunno. You do have a point. Wait for realests response.

[Realest]

then that's an inefficient chain. when realest says max gains in chaining, target's nw drops as he's being chained. the process leads to dropping the chain target's nw for the range of lower-tier pvs who can max gain. good leaders plan chaining with such plans in mind, hence the reason multiple chain targets(more than 1) are selected so all pvs get good gains

correct.

Either way, dropping their nw also drops their land. There's usually a fatter target available while chaining...

then you hit that fatter target. try it and see it work. i wouldnt say to do it if it didnt work.

[Palem]

then you hit that fatter target. try it and see it work. i wouldnt say to do it if it didnt work.

Then that isn't chaining lol. After like 3 hits there's bound to be a better target. 3 hits isn't a chain lol

[Kemia]

Chaining is like 20 hits deep on one province within 6 hours +- between each hit or "set of hits"

[Realest]

if a target ceases to be a chain target after 3 hits, then either

1. you picked a bad chain target
2. you are not ordering it proper

I'm aware what chaining is Kemia. Do you have back to back crowns? Cuz I do. So stfu, thx.

[DDodge]

Kemia..... ignore realest please carry on. im learning things

[Elurin]

The reason chain is more effective than max gains if executed correctly is that chain inevitably means certain provs will grow a lot while others are taken down. What realest says is truth in terms of gains, don't use up your hits on 25 acre hits, but the strategy is very situation dependent. If simplifying it's the best for a pure attacker kd warring a pure attacker kd or if you have far superior provs/activity. If you have a more mixed setup as many lower ranked kd's will, with pure T/M's and hybrids, it's likely not your best choice. You want to both have some enemy hybrids grow to disable their T/M ability and to have some enemy attackers grow to provide an open goal for all your own hybrid efforts. This while hitting in order to maintain gains. Another effect of chaining vs max gain is on ambush, if 20 provs hit 20 other provs, all 20 hits can be ambushed.

[dx7778]

maxgain strategy only comes into picture if you have varying nw provinces in a KD usually a ghetto. The way u do it is semi chain a province who are 80-120% of your nw and lower its nw for the guys who are below u to max gain from. that way you get maximum acres squeezed out of it by throughout the team.
Kd's having uniform nw cannot use maxgains.

[Midoki]

Realest, what you say I agree with you largly but I am curious about something regarding lesser active kds and max gaining.

There are defenatly benefits to focusing on one person at times, quickly brings a prov close to being unbreakable down and to force a cleric to lose off due to overpop are a couple, are you sug that these kds should still max gain and potentially let those provs become unbreakable? I'm not in a bad kd and can rely on TM support but I dont want to assume all kds can, we've faced some with qestionable TMs in the past.

are there times which you would say that max gains should be secondary or to just keep grinding those max gains?

[Persain]

maxgain strategy only comes into picture if you have varying nw provinces in a KD usually a ghetto. The way u do it is semi chain a province who are 80-120% of your nw and lower its nw for the guys who are below u to max gain from. that way you get maximum acres squeezed out of it by throughout the team.
Kd's having uniform nw cannot use maxgains.

disagree 100%, i would use max gain over chaining only if my kd has all prov within 10% of each other. A uniform kd is perfectly set up to max gain.

[dx7778]

how? a uniform nw KD cannot take advantage of max gains once you reach the third day of a war cos all your targets nw would have fallen below maxgain range.

[Ethan]

how? a uniform nw KD cannot take advantage of max gains once you reach the third day of a war cos all your targets nw would have fallen below maxgain range.

Aka, you've got 25 near UB. This is a case where it makes sense - if there are no provs left above your kingdom... how can they hope to contain? Sure T/Ms might keep some in check, and if the enemy is chaining you've got 4-8 down for the count.... but that still leaves at least 10 attackers all threatening to go UB. That's called a win, generally.


Seems like there is some confusion about "chain" and "max gain" - Realist, you wanna give precise definitions of what these things mean (to you, at least)? Cause I'm fairly sure the question above assumes that max gain = within +-10% NW... which is not what I took your "max gain" to mean at all. (Aka, I assumed you meant "hit whoever gets you the most land" - aka a 7% gain double is better than a 11% single.) Then at least I'd know what the heck people are actually arguing about.

[Persain]

how? a uniform nw KD cannot take advantage of max gains once you reach the third day of a war cos all your targets nw would have fallen below maxgain range.

For one i've rarely hard a war where i max gained go to 3 days becasue we did it right, second the concept is your kd always hits within +-10% and then if no targets are withing range u hit above 10% nw you are "max gaining".

So lets say u max gain and your prov are ~100% equal in size, while the other kd has a nw spread and is chaining. you ignore the big few attackers (shelling them out for later to grow) while u max gain on the other prov. Now your kd will end up spliting the nw of the other kd. such that they have a few VERY large attackers, and a few very large attackers that are shelled out. You have a few prov that have been chained and are now max gaining on the other kd's small attackers that were designed to be the prov to finish of chains(the small hitters in their kd never grow because u always max into them the second they get in nw range, and at least a FEW of them have had enough hits that your kd's own chained people can now double/triple them and completely remove them from war).. Thus there is a large gap in the +-20% of your kd's core attackers. Now their large prov cant effectively start chains due to being to big, and their small prov cant really start a chain being to small, you have now hurt their ability to nw chain effectively and messed them up. In contrast your kd has say 10 people who all want to be hiting. well you move onto their big prov the prov that are 120%+ your average hitters, sure a few hits may be oonw range(whoever in your kd max gained the best will probubly have grown the most nw and wont truely be oonw range), but your attackers swarm on them the second they are in nw range and u end up accidentally chaining the hell out of them when the only goal was max gaining.

In addition if the war does go 3+days all your attackers have been growing in land the hope is that 1-2 of them are unbreakable or 4,5,6 of them have very good income and can Superfund dragons/unbreakable. seem reasonable?


**edit....when realest said "A chain is just a max gain done in order. " i read that as when u are chaining, your are hitting the "best target" in your NW range(concept of max gains), its just that that person being "chained" is the best target for multiple people to hit, and those multiple people are organized that big hits first small hits last.

[Realest]

lol.

[Elurin]

omg, I wanna Superfund a dragfon =D