Elf Sage build

[Lyam]

Hey guys, just wondering what a decent elf sage build would be in prot, before war and in war. I'm planning to be an attacker and dish out some magical damage as well.

I posted this somewhere else, so here goes:

Prot:
20% homes
20% banks
20% schools
20% arms
8% farms
7% towers
5% guilds

Out of war:
Mostly pumping, but haven't figured any percentages out. Could be close to the Prot-build.

During war:
20% homes
8% farms
10% guard towers
15% training grounds
10% barracks
10% forts
10% watchtowers
10% hospitals
5% towers
2% guilds

[Twyla]

Without at least 10% Guilds, you're going to fizzle a lot of self-spells. Without at least 15%-20% Guilds, you're going to have a mega-crappy WpA.

Drop Homes by 10% and use that land for Guilds instead, and you might stand a chance.

[Ordray]

Drop at least 10% of the homes from the build altogether, and the forts would be better used elsewhere in the build as well.
2% Guilds is going to cast you exactly 0 self spells and all of your offensive duration spells are going to be the absolute minimum. You need to have a minimum of 8% Guilds.
Also, in protection I wouldn't run any schools as you should be focusing on your WPA and military. You'd be better off with more banks and armories or more guilds to build that initial WPA.

[DDodge]

2% guilds

2% guilds

2% guilds

2% guilds

2% guilds

2% guilds

2% guilds

hmmmm... can this work?

[nooblet]

Homes are a horrible building you should get rid of as soon as it is convenient to do so. The ones you're stuck with in protection can stay around for a while with few ill reprecussions, but only because it's a waste of cash to raze them for something better.
I don't understand why people feel the need to build many of them. If you must have homes, they should only be used once you have all of the % buildings you'd want to use, and only rarely would ever be more than 10% of your land. 5% is enough, really, if there is uncertainty as to what would be in their place.
You need 10% guilds to be an effective mage, and usually need towers to supply the runes unless your kingdom pays attention to resource management and is willing to aid you runes frequently. 5% towers is barely enough to cast self-spells, which Elf will cast very often.

For a sage, banks should be a core of your province's build, with at least 10% land towards them, whether in war or peace, unless your province loses a lot of land during the war and its economy is turned to crap. Science investment costs money, and the banks help you run higher science rates in order to best utilize the sage's effectiveness bonus. In war the funds are a necessity in order to keep your province viable in the long term, even if your population is fireballed away. As an elf you can avoid some fireballing with a natural inclination towards magic defense and their selfspells providing multiple forms of defense magic boosts, which make banks a much more attractive wartime option for you.

Shifting your build drastically after every war, and shifting back just before, is a bad idea. Not only is it expensive, but if caught in pump mode you are a sitting duck. Some parts of your build should be consistent throughout, like the aforementioned banks, at least 10% guilds, the obligatory farms, and usually hospitals+training grounds to be able to at least attack if you are caught pumping or find the opportunity for a landgrab. The other 50% of your land is more than enough space to shift between economic and wartime buildings.

[Kemia]

Hey guys, just wondering what a decent elf sage build would be in prot, before war and in war. I'm planning to be an attacker and dish out some magical damage as well.

I posted this somewhere else, so here goes:

Prot:
20% homes
20% banks
20% schools
20% arms
8% farms
7% towers
5% guilds

Out of war:
Mostly pumping, but haven't figured any percentages out. Could be close to the Prot-build.

During war:
20% homes
8% farms
10% guard towers
15% training grounds
10% barracks
10% forts
10% watchtowers
10% hospitals
5% towers
2% guilds

I am not good at playing elf/sage hybrid or shifting buildings of pre-war/post-war never tried it before!!

However, here is a suggestions one you have waay too many buildings, a rainbow build only works if you know what your doing! if you want to do a/m focus more toward cash/economy as a sage you get books per acre naturally, however, if you drop the homes to 15% farms to 8% you have an extra 17% to build with right there, I would suggest putting those into banks, the schools EWW drop them completely, (unless your going to run and insanely high research rate like "intensive or exetreme" otherwise drop them and put them into guilds or even that extra 17% you get from dropping the farms and homes into guilds:


If I was playing your race/perso I would run like this

15% homes
8% farms
20-25% banks
15-20% guilds
10-15% towers

your during war looks farily solid except for the fact you have no TOWERS OR GUILDS (you wanna be a mage your useless without them!!!) just saying,

So I have to agree with twyla you got to update and change your build accordingly: or learn on your own as stubborn people always do :P

[nooblet]

If I were Elf/Sage at the start of age, I wouldn't bother pushing to be a strong a/m out the gate. Get your science first, and play as an attacker... a weaker attacker than the dedicated attack races and humans, but an attacker with reasonable protection against t/m ops. If you can succeed with spells that's great, but pitfalls doesn't require an epic wpa to pull off and only needs to be cast on a few targets every 8-10 hours at the most, and that will be the spell of choice for an Elf during war. You can't expect to pull off heavy fireballs in the early age, without some channeling science and the ability to build more towers due to your overall province efficiency. Even with sage late age you will be weaker than most attackers.

Whatever you do, don't build homes at all as a consistent part of your strategy. They are a horrid building, in general, for Elf, for Sage, for a/m.

Replace that 20% homes with both guilds and towers, and that would be reasonable. You could survive with fewer forts... forts are not a replacement for defense, but they are decent standard buildings for provinces that cannot utilize a high offense strategy.

[Twyla]

SOME Homes (5%-15%) are a good investment - once you cross around 17% for a given Building, the BE boost from 1% Homes gives a better net return than an additional 1% of that building. For active Attackers, the Birth Rate boost will fill your new lands a lot faster, driving up BE AND Income while they're under construction.

While not ideal, they DO have their place.

[igotnomilk]

I am Elf/sage Attacker/FB/PF mage, just came out of an 8 day war. I intend to run this next war:

1000 acres.
Draft rate 65%.
Wage rate 200%
3 Raw WPA
1.5 Raw TPA

5% Farms
15% TGs
20% Rax
13% Guilds
13% Towers
15% Hospitals
20% Guard Stations

With above average science:
alchemy +15%;
tools +15%;
housing +10%;
food +100%;
military +10%;
thievery;
channeling +100%;

I calculate these effects:

-----Population Breakdown

Population size = 27500 people
MOD PPA = 27.5 per acre
Army size = 16375 military personnel
Thieves = 1500
Wizards = 3000
Peasants = 6625

------Employment

Employment rate = 100 percent
Available Workers/Optimal Workers = 39.5522 percent
Building Efficiency = 80.2425 percent

-------Income

Bank Effect perc = 0 percent increased income
Bank Effect flat = 0 GCs
Raw Income = 18218 GCs
Mod Income = 20950 GCs
Arms Bonus = 0 percent wage reduction
Military Wages = 13918 GCs
Daily Net Change = 7032 GCs

------Food

Food needed = 6875 bushels
Food produced = 7021 bushels
Food surplus = 146 bushels

------Sciences (Required books)

Alchemy. BPA = 80, Books = 79719
Tools. BPA = 156, Books = 156250
Housing. BPA = 164, Books = 164366
Food. BPA = 109, Books = 108507
Military. BPA = 35, Books = 35431
Crime. BPA = 0, Books = 0
Channeling. BPA = 193, Books = 192901

TOTAL. BPA = 737, Books = 737174

------Runes (For FB, self spells)

Runes needed every 12h = 30600 runes
Runes produced daily = 2504 runes
Runes produced every 12h = 30048 runes

------Wizards (Assumes MF and Magic Shield cast)

Offensive mod WPA = 7.2 modWPA
Defensive mod WPA = 5.76 modWPA

------Thieves, CS and Watchtower Effects

Modified TPA = 1.5
Percent chance to catch thieves = 25 percent (From CS)
Percent enemy failed ops = 0 percent

-------Military

Rangers = 0
Archers = 8932
DSPA = 9
Elf Lords = 7443
EPA = 7

OME = 124.097 percent
DME = 112.966 percent

Mod Offense Points = 69345
Mod Def Points Army Out = 60541
Mod Def Points Army Home = 85765
OPA = 69
DPA army out = 61
DPA army home = 86

-------ATTACK TIME


Barracks effect = 19.2582 percent time reduction

OOW, Same island = 11.6268 hours
OOW, Diff island = 12.9187 hours
WAR, Same island = 9.30145 hours
WAR, Diff island = 10.3349 hours

--------MILITARY LOSSES

20.4618 percent chance of curing plague
30.6928 percent lower military losses


Send 0 Rangers and 7443 Elf Lords,
Lose 0 Rangers and 361 Elf Lords
Hospitals save 0 Rangers and 160 Elf Lords.

-------Networth

Total Networth = 185888 GCs
NWPA = 185.888 GCs

I didn't factor in stuff like Riots, Plague, Dragons, Honor in the calculations. Some self-spells like MP and IA are assumed to be cast 24/7.

Not going to bother with homes just for BE boost. I am sage and have science for that.

I plan to run 20% Rax and 20% GS. Quite sure I will be chained in our next war, since I have the highest honor in the KD. Is it worth it though?
My income sucks - I sacrificed banks in favour of GS. Assuming I will be the first to go down in war, what would you change in my strat?
Reckon I should run higher DPA, sacrificing some offense?

I welcome any feedback.

EDIT: To answer OP's question, I think everyone's made clear that more towers are needed. I like to have enough runes at every tick to fully utilise the elf's +5 mana/tick advantage. Hence investing heavily in Magic science is a priority for the elf A/m role.

[_greenie]

you're running 60 dpa army out, why???
and your income is terrible...
that prov will be in trouble as soon as you get hit twice :p

[igotnomilk]

60 dpa was not my intention. I wanted at least 70 opa, and this works with a 4:3 dspec:elite ratio. Do you think that's too high? It seems pretty solid to me.

I really just need the income to pay military. I do expect getting chained. For the first 12 hours of war I may have to rely on GC aid, but I'll slowly phase my GS out into banks with incoming land.

[_greenie]

60 dpa was not my intention. I wanted at least 70 opa, and this works with a 4:3 dspec:elite ratio. Do you think that's too high? It seems pretty solid to me.

I really just need the income to pay military. I do expect getting chained. For the first 12 hours of war I may have to rely on GC aid, but I'll slowly phase my GS out into banks with incoming land.

drop 2.5 dspa and 0.5 tpa
get 50% crime sci (at least) as 100 bpa = 1 nw/a, which is less than the extra 0.5 tpa (2 nw/a)
get 2 extra epa, and 1 extra pez/acre, you'll be a much better province for it
also drop 5% from GS and Rax, put in 10% banks... you'll stop being a burden on your kd during war.... saying "i may have to rely on gc aid" means your a potential issue for your kd....

and your maths seems wrong anyways
7 epa * 7 (off value) * 1.24 (TG) = 60.76 opa + gens = 66.2
mine you get almost 80opa without gens

turtling still gives you ~75dpa...
am a big believer in being able to break yourself army home

[hint]

I played elf sage last age and ended up with rather effective a/t/m. But truth be told, I was under the protection of my kd and NAPed with threats, so I was able to pump in ways most people in smaller kds would not survive in, if they tryed. Yet from my expirence this would be the advice for elf sage a/m:

Prot: Normal prot buildings with above average guilds. This means you first build banks with some guilds and towers. Then with explored land you build a lot of armories(and as elf more guilds). Don't forget to add few farms later on to not starve. This is 101 to 99% of prot builds, forget the schools, forget the homes, they are useless during protection.

Peace/pumping: There are just 3 buildings that are key to it. Banks, schools and guilds. Forget the rest. How much you can get each of them also depends how much time you are given to pump. If you have prolonged time of lets say 2 weeks I'd say maybe look towards something like 35% guilds 25% banks 20% schools 7% farms 13% towers. Remember fatter you are, almost expodentially more income you make hence more effective your pump is. Hence I added this build towers as dicing is one of the best ways to grow while being "fat". Altho in less organized kds it might cause u getting farmed too easly. So alternative would be running TGs instead of towers(minus few) in order to maintain better retal threat and leave attacking avalible as a way of growing. Very good player would prolly combine the 2(or technically 4 since you already have pumping sci and wiz in the list).

War: Obv you get as much out of the pump buildings and as much into war buildings(TGs, rax, GS, hosps) as you can. Plus you increase towers, how much depends on your magic sci. Remember OOW you can cast 1 spell for each hour of mana regen. In war that number is 2.5. So up to 20-25% towers can be needed when magic sci is not yet over 100%.

Later age I would start thinking about increasing the tpa and getting some TDs for wars. Once bpa hits over about 700 I'd start moving libs in. On 1500 bpa, should you reach that by eoa, I would likely run about 20% libs.

[TerricK]

This is what I'm running ATM...
5% homes, 10% guilds,20% towers,10% barracks
15% training ground,15% banks,6% farms, 15% hospitals and a few acres always being built... I have +70% magic science and I'm mostly casting greed/pitfalls/ fireballs.... And I'm barely producing enough runes to support my +2 mana...
My economy is great with 70 opa going into war...

[Ordray]

This is what I'm running ATM...
5% homes, 10% guilds,20% towers,10% barracks
15% training ground,15% banks,6% farms, 15% hospitals and a few acres always being built... I have +70% magic science and I'm mostly casting greed/pitfalls/ fireballs.... And I'm barely producing enough runes to support my +2 mana...
My economy is great with 70 opa going into war...

That doesn't add up to 100% acres.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of DPA, TPA, and WPA are you running?