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Thread: humans ns or prop?

  1. #1
    Regular KaosAngel's Avatar
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    humans ns or prop?

    Given the bonuses, I've personally ran a couple tests but haven't come to anything conclusive. Assuming armies are home, which have you found hurts the other province more- human prop (no max, but very random) or ns? I realize ns has more guarantees since you don't have to stalk anyone to catch them at home and you are hitting troops which is why i'm assuming they have been successfully stalked and are at home when you prop.

  2. #2
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    Prop if you can succeed consistently, which you probably can't as an a/t. Prop can take more specs than NS per op and far more elites, and taking an enemy's thieves and wizards is not a bad alternative. NS is much more likely to succeed and carries less risk when it fails, but if you don't care about preserving tpa then that doesn't matter as much.
    Propped specialists are good for slaying any dragons that are up, or for supporting growth if you're underpopulated. The only other issue is propping someone with all of their elites out - but if they leave substantial elites at home like Dwarf and Avian often do, then prop still takes enough elites to make it a good op.

  3. #3
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    Prop is bad when army is ou and they have no soldiers, you loose 40% of your successfull ops straight away. But if you take thieves it makes it easier for other people too. So if army home and they have high specs, go prop.

  4. #4
    I like to post KuhaN's Avatar
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    Dont listen to anybody that says prop is better. NS is better almost everytime, the only exception is if you already know you won and are now resulting to farming your opponent.

    The amount of times youre going to get ****ty wizards/soldiers/leets is more than enough reason why nightstrikes is a far superior op.

    Btw, i played halfling rogue for 3 straight rounds (last round was my last).
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    /disagree

    Just make sure you have high rawtpa, modtpa(>*4), td(mostly for losses), are within nw range, and that they don't have WT(not only for fail, but the -losses actually matters with prop).

    edit: also, mv that patriotism if it appears to be up.

  6. #6
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    NS to damage them, prop to rub your win in their faces.
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    Prop is better than NS in many instances, it comes down to why you're opping a prov. Sometimes I have my rogues do prop runs to enable NS for lower tpa provinces by removing thieves, or to get specs to slay dragon with - 2 instances when prop > NS. On undeads/orcs with large army out and when the purpose is to hurt their off NS is obviously better. Decide what you want to accomplish by the opping first, then find the suitable op.

  8. #8
    Post Fiend Pazuzu's Avatar
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    I'd agree to prefer NS over Prop, as it is the far more reliable choice due to some random factors involved in Prop (which, by the way, is especially not much worthwhile when you opponent's army are out in the field -- as pointed out by others....). Nonetheless, Prop can be an option in some situations, too -- as for instance, when the other kingdom is clearly beaten and you want to farm some honour and stuff ;) and/or if you plan to use their own specs to slay a Dragon sent by them (though, as said before, it's still not a very reliable op....).

  9. #9
    I like to post KuhaN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elurin View Post
    Prop is better than NS in many instances, it comes down to why you're opping a prov. Sometimes I have my rogues do prop runs to enable NS for lower tpa provinces by removing thieves, or to get specs to slay dragon with - 2 instances when prop > NS. On undeads/orcs with large army out and when the purpose is to hurt their off NS is obviously better. Decide what you want to accomplish by the opping first, then find the suitable op.
    So you send your rogues to prop a prov in order to eliminate his thieves? Do you know how bad the chance is of actually propping only thieves? And on top of that, when you do get through, prop is so insanely random you may get anywhere from 50 thieves up to idk like 350. Instead, you couldve consistenly, and coordinately, killed like thousands of troops easily. Hopefully you understand my point now, and that youre essentially wasting your rogues precious stealth.

    I can tell you, my mates are usually careless when theyre getting prop'd, but when they get ns'd theyre really sad pandas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkl1ght View Post
    Unfortunately, no amount of razes will improve your war record
    Greatest strategy thread/question of all-time.

  10. #10
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    Kuhan; The chance of propping thieves is 20% and well known to most of the community; perhaps not to you. There is no such thing as randomness over time for an op, it has a distribution around a certain % with a certain deviation. I try not to judge people I don't know, but your above post demonstrates a lack of understanding of game mechanics and as such you should probably sound a bit more humble and be open to learn new things. Using completely irrelevant examples (e.g. 50 and 350 would both be awesome if the prov had 360 thieves in total) to try to get your point across will not get you credit.

    That said, I agree NS is the safer choice and unless you know what you're doing, stick to it.

  11. #11
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    He's a human. If all 4 things I listed are in your favor then prop does much more damage on average than ns to troops, and gains them for you. If you have all 4, damage isn't really that random.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topsy View Post
    He's a human. If all 4 things I listed are in your favor then prop does much more damage on average than ns to troops, and gains them for you. If you have all 4, damage isn't really that random.
    Last age our kd got the data from 15 different people who ran full prop runs as human rouges
    5-6 raw tpa
    15-20% TD
    ~2k acres
    ~equal success rate on ns v prop

    I have sadly deleted the specific data but off the top of my head it ended up that it was better to NS in ALL but TWO cases.
    1. honor whoreing, u get more honor so its better than ns.
    2. Against an A/M with army in. The only reason that worked out that way is that you had a large chance of taking a substantial amount of wizards and 1 propaganda would average the same damage as ~2/3 of a ns, 1/4 an AW and u get a few thieves.

    Thus when the army is home and u have a chance to get leets your total damage was on par with what u'd have if u had run an 2/3 ns & 1/3 aw mix of ops. add to the fact that u get the troops and it puts propaganda slightly ahead.

    However if you arent oping a A/M (who u want to both ns and aw) or their army is out the loss of getting leets AND the insignificant number of wizzards you get made the op pale in comparison to the massive damage done by ns.

  13. #13
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    then your data set looks different than my data set. what % gains were you averaging in the different categories at 5-6raw when similar nw and no wt?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topsy View Post
    then your data set looks different than my data set. what % gains were you averaging in the different categories at 5-6raw when similar nw and no wt?
    I dont remember :/
    Like i said after i did the calculations i deleted all the data like week 11 of last age. I got the data from our 3 human rogues, and then from a few people on irc, so im sure if u bug them #tactics & strategy will share the data.

    I do remember that there seemed to be cap the maxim % of each category of leet/wizard thief and whatnot as the # of thieves in particular that were propagandized per op decreased over time even though the same # of thieves were sent. What sticks with me is the 2/3 DAMAGE to troops as compared to ns. The number when down if they didnt have leets home becasue you ended up doing 2/3 damage to specs but no damage to leets.

    Feel free to post your numbers here others might as well or maybe we can get the actual formula. of damage to each troop type/theif sent

  15. #15
    I like to post Realest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elurin View Post
    Prop is better than NS in many instances, it comes down to why you're opping a prov. Sometimes I have my rogues do prop runs to enable NS for lower tpa provinces by removing thieves, or to get specs to slay dragon with - 2 instances when prop > NS. On undeads/orcs with large army out and when the purpose is to hurt their off NS is obviously better. Decide what you want to accomplish by the opping first, then find the suitable op.
    this is correct. Prop has it's niche, and it's not as clear cut as it seems. Saying NS > Prop -ALL- the time is like saying Ruby > Gold/Sapph/Em -ALL- the time, when that's simply not true.

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