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Thread: Rage of Absalom: Dealbreakers

  1. #61
    Forum Addict fuzzy|'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godly View Post
    This would normally be true other than the fact that they aren't allowed to serve notice while in hostile/war, so the minute they hit us, they are deal breaking and subject to the wrath of utopia -- whatever that means is TBD.
    godly my old friend - you got the ingame pm / irc convo stating the deal terms? if so just post them here so the public can see the truth - end of story :)
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  2. #62
    Triggered Godly's Avatar
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    I don't, but it's been documented that both sides agree that the terms are no hostile/war notice. The point of contention is whether or not war encompasses postwar -- which the majority of utopia (including ASF) agrees that it does. It's just in this instance, it's not beneficial for them so it is being called a "grey area."

    In a few hrs we're going to do 8 hits on a kingdom with 10k acres and call it a hostile. Rage can't interfere with an active hostile, right?
    "Godly, you do realized that you have just sealed your faith now, right?"

  3. #63
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    It's only hostile if they hit back.
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  4. #64
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    Was more of a joke of how people like to use grey area.
    "Godly, you do realized that you have just sealed your faith now, right?"

  5. #65
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    lol

    how mad right now?

  6. #66
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    actually, this is not the first time there is "gray area" about EoWCF. At the end of the day, if the terms arent clear, it's your own fault. Let's not kid ourselves that anyone would act on plausible deniability, but iunno, everyone likes to whine when the conditions are not in their favour. I don't think what rage doing is -wrong-, just taboo, but we know that Rage's reputation has been dragged through the mud by Proteus already anyway. Rage's notice is valid here.

    10 ages ago,
    [Fri 17:08:41] <ata> I'm from rage
    [Fri 17:08:47] <Realest> yea?
    [Fri 17:08:52] <ata> and we're giving sonata 48h notice
    [Fri 17:08:59] <Realest> but we're still in eow cf

    [Fri 17:23:09] <Realest> well, lets assume you are from rage, we're still in eow cf, if u want to notice, we can start the countdown from when we come into the open
    [Fri 17:24:33] <ata> I have never heard of needing for a eow cf to end before giving notice
    [Fri 17:25:11] <Realest> our kd page still says we're at war doesnt it
    [Fri 17:25:17] <ata> yes...
    [Fri 17:25:21] <Realest> + relations with EQ havent closed yet
    [Fri 17:25:37] <ata> these things are true
    [Fri 17:25:43] <ata> but they don't imply that we cannot give notice
    [Fri 17:25:46] <ata> so we are giving notice

    [Fri 17:51:21] <Realest> but really, since when have notices been allowed to be given in eow cfs
    [Fri 17:53:02] <ata> i dunno. all I can tell you is that our deal didn't exclude giving notice in an eow cf.
    [Fri 17:53:21] <ata> next time, we can explicitly include it if you want

  7. #67
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    Wasn't asf running rage 10 ages ago? Why are other people doing the diplo?

  8. #68
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    ASF hasn't been actively active for a while now, spanning back as much as I would say 15? 20? ages now. While he is still involved with Rage, he's more of an idol than a true leader. Ata is the unheralded champion behind the scenes, while Proteus soaks up all the social media attention.

  9. #69
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    eh, I guess I have trouble believing that 10 ages ago was Age 43 lol

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godly View Post
    This would normally be true other than the fact that they aren't allowed to serve notice while in hostile/war, so the minute they hit us, they are deal breaking and subject to the wrath of utopia -- whatever that means is TBD.
    It's a grey area. The quote earlier in the thread from ASF seems to be talking about giving notice TO a kd who is in an eowcf. There doesn't seem to be a problem with kd who is IN an eowcf giving notice. If they want to cut short their recovery time, that's their business. I will agree that it could give them a timing advantage (as in inzz won't know when Rage will drop out of the eow cf), but as long as rage drops out before the notice time is up, there's really absolutely no harm, no foul, no wrongdoing. Inzz loses nothing at all in that case and has nothing to complain about.

  11. #71
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    it was around then that Absalom largely became dorje's covert operation with carsten leaving for good and ASF essentially disappearing. You can probably trace the downfall of the alliance to dorje's takeover. However, that is neither here or there, so let's not worry about that. Let's get back to why Rage is so lame.

  12. #72
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by UtopiaNub View Post
    Well, if Rage had withdrawn, maybe I could see BiO saying that it wasn't their will to end the conflict. But it's BiO who withdrew, so it obviously WAS their will to end the conflict. That's why it's ridiculous for them to threaten to 2v1 Rage if Rage goes off to fight someone else. BiO fought Rage and did well and won some acres. They proved their point. They should move on. It's pretty childish to threaten to 2v1 Rage, again, for no real reason. As far as I know, abs didn't retaliate for the previous 2v1 ... which BiO should feel lucky about. I don't think a second time would go unretaliated. Abs has always struck me as very patient... to a point.
    So these relations are "closed" in the same way that a no term in game cf is "binding"?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meeni View Post
    So these relations are "closed" in the same way that a no term in game cf is "binding"?
    You withdrew from your war with rage. That closed the hostile. Until Rage waves you or you wave Rage, there's not any hostile going on. So, if Rage were to get involved hostile with another kd, and you waved into it, then you would be 2v1 and interfering with Rage's hostile. From what I gather, that is your intent. That's why I pointed out that abs let you get away with it the last time, but I wouldn't count on them being patient with that kind of thing forever. Abs has basically been the reason 1v1 is considered the "correct" way to play Utopia. The game certainly isn't coded that way. As far as I know, you can still raze into someone else's war for full effect even. What the game will allow you to do, and what the community has mutually abided by for over a decade are obviously always going to differ in some ways.

    I personally don't see how inzz is in the least bit harmed by Rage giving them notice in this case. The earlier quotes from ASF were talking about giving notice into and eowcf, and were in the context of the old 48 hour max eowcf periods and vulturing. eowcf periods are now highly variable and can go on twice as long, and vulturing is essentially impossible. And in this situation the notice isn't being given into an eowcf. So ASF's quotes, while cool, don't appear to apply here.

  14. #74
    007 licence to post Anri's Avatar
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    Good work utopianub... I doubt that BiO and Inso would get away with a 2 vs 1 situation vs Rage.
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  15. #75
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    Please note that whilst this may or may not represent a policy change for Rage, this is not necessarily indicative of an existent policy or a policy change for Sanctuary or the other kingdoms of the Absalom Alliance, who unless specifically stated each negotiate their own individual deals and have their own individual policies regarding how they are maintained.

    Speaking on behalf of Sanctuary, we have no intention at present to change our policies regarding notice deals although we do of course support our allies.
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