Deep Chaining Question

[azdw]

Hi,

Our kingdom has recently gotten to the stage that we're becoming quite active and coordinated, and we love to chain. Still, we have a little way to go until we're satisfied with our results.

What we feel is the problem, is what you're going to do after you've gotten a province down to below 400 acres. We target the most active attackers of course, so they are johnny on the spot about sending out their troops out each time so they don't desert. We feel that we can't really disable them all the way as we want to do.

We've easily gotten them down to around 300+ acres, at which point gains from Trad March was about 9 (no GS) per hit. The province was still able to hit for 70-90 acres each 8-10 hour.

Now last war, we did a little of everything just to see what worked the best. Razing seems quite effective for a little while, and Learns can really be quite beneficial. Massacres seems kind of pointless (as thieves, wizzies and peasantry should be near non-existant at this point).

I've proposed something like this;

1. Trad March until below 400 acres.
2. Raze x 10 (aprox) to remove buildings and lower nw and overpopulate further.
3. Learns x 10 (if decent sciences).
4. Continue with Trad March until province no longer attacks.

I'm very curious to know what everyone else does in these cases. Please comment :)

[Sharaf]

did you ambush the attacks they made back on you? also, there is no need to keep hit them once they are under 400, change targets and use whats left after attacking the new chain target on the old target.

edit: also, i dont know if you guys already do that, but try to wave in nw order for batter effects.

[MojoCrojo]

It would be more effective to move on to a new chain target once you have put them down to ~300. Ambush all the attacks you can and only send spare offense at the former target.

[Persain]

Once at 300-400 acres u should have them down in the 5-10k def ( and that will drop )just save generals from your attackers and do 1-2 Regular hits+1-2 hits on the chained people. That why when u read the news logs there are 100+hits on some prov, becasue it only costs 2-4k offence to break them at 300 acres after u've been doing it long enough.

[octobrev]

One more chaining post and you're gone.

[Couperus]

(...) try to wave in nw order for batter effects.

Or add blueberries before baking.

[azdw]

Well, the guys we've gotten down to 300 acres usually have around 1-2k defense very shortly.
Therefore we use leftover generals+offense on this target only. Looks very intimidating in the paper :) With 3-4 attacks per player.

So basically, all you guys stop at around 400 acres and just send extra generals their way, without too much effort in taking them out of the game completely?

Ambush when available is of course a given, we do that as well.

[Persain]

Well, the guys we've gotten down to 300 acres usually have around 1-2k defense very shortly.
Therefore we use leftover generals+offense on this target only. Looks very intimidating in the paper :) With 3-4 attacks per player.

So basically, all you guys stop at around 400 acres and just send extra generals their way, without too much effort in taking them out of the game completely?

Ambush when available is of course a given, we do that as well.

Yes, most kds stop 300-400 and just send extra generals. My kd doesn't normally bother with Ambush becasue u get lower gains than a regular hit, its not worth effort to take them lower in most cases, and 300 acres is effectively out of war once u get big enough.

[lastunicorn]

ambush is key. Once you hit them down to 400 acres you could either ambush their 300 acre hit, or hit them again for 20 acres.

[Persain]

ambush is key. Once you hit them down to 400 acres you could either ambush their 300 acre hit, or hit them again for 20 acres.

Ambush is meh. Once they go down to 300-400 acres it doesn't really matter how many acres they bounce back to you've already caused them to loose most of their def and there are more important things to do than ambush.

Its not even that great as far as acres goes, for example lets say u ambush their hit on you for 300 acres (u get 150 acres) when u had a 50k def. Assume an avian and 130% OME. that means they sent 50000/1.3~38461 points of offence or 38461/7~5494 leets. To ambush that u need to send an unmodded offense of 5494*4*0.8~17582. Even if your an undead thats ~1952 leets to ambush. In comparison if their def is say around 6k, if u have the same 130% OME you'd only need to send 500 leets to hit them. That means if u triple tap them for 20 acres a pop you get 60 acres and free up 500 leets for a real hit. Sure u loose a few acres, but u keep whittling away at their def, cause them to have more un-built acres, take a few peasants and you keep your armies together (a very big bonus for those of us with a life).

[Kemia]

Ambush is meh. Once they go down to 300-400 acres it doesn't really matter how many acres they bounce back to you've already caused them to loose most of their def and there are more important things to do than ambush.

Its not even that great as far as acres goes, for example lets say u ambush their hit on you for 300 acres (u get 150 acres) when u had a 50k def. Assume an avian and 130% OME. that means they sent 50000/1.3~38461 points of offence or 38461/7~5494 leets. To ambush that u need to send an unmodded offense of 5494*4*0.8~17582. Even if your an undead thats ~1952 leets to ambush. In comparison if their def is say around 6k, if u have the same 130% OME you'd only need to send 500 leets to hit them. That means if u triple tap them for 20 acres a pop you get 60 acres and free up 500 leets for a real hit. Sure u loose a few acres, but u keep whittling away at their def, cause them to have more un-built acres, take a few peasants and you keep your armies together (a very big bonus for those of us with a life).

if you dont know how to ambush then gtfo out cause tahts where you will get the most gains from the smaller chained provines ;)

[Kemia]

not to menntion you make them lose offense 2!!

[lastunicorn]

If you take them down to 300 acres and they have 300 acres inc, you really only took them down to 600 acres. Getting that much land in means they don't have to release as much in order to make their next attack.

[Persain]

if you dont know how to ambush then gtfo out cause tahts where you will get the most gains from the smaller chained provines ;)

I know how to ambush, its not all about strait acre gain. :P

If you take them down to 300 acres and they have 300 acres inc, you really only took them down to 600 acres. Getting that much land in means they don't have to release as much in order to make their next attack.

Case in point, when their army get back if their size is 450 or 600 acres it doesn't really matter. You chained them down to 300 acres when their defense & thieves left, any well run prov should be able to continue attacking at either acre size. That is unless they were still more than 150% maximum population when their land came in and then u utterly fail at chaining as a kd. Either way if we compare kd v kd strat i chain 2 of your kds prov to 600 acres and u hit 2 of mine to 450 acres I'd say im ahead as i have both of my chained people 5 hit u and nearly all hits will be in nw range. If you tried to do that to one of my kds prov not all 10 hits will be in nw range...i.e. less effective.

Point being Ambush is meh, can be useful not "key" in chaining.

[nooblet]

Answer is simple - move on to the next target.

Too many people seem to think that chaining is the end-all of war, as if it were the entire point. It's just a means to an end.