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Thread: Realistic Science in Game

  1. #1
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    Realistic Science in Game

    So I have been away from the game for about 25+ ages until about a week ago, and I was fooling around with Angel's Science calculator and the science maxes are much higher than I thought that they were.

    You max out around 3500 points per acre?

    But how in the world do you train such ungodly amounts of science? That is something like half a million points in every category at only 1000 acres.

    If you have your province completely modded out for science pumping at the example size of 1000 acres, then how many points would it be possible to learn per real life 24 hour day??

    I'm just trying to figure out how long a good science pump takes.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Post Demon lastunicorn's Avatar
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    Extreme gives you 3bpa/hour, if fountain of knowledge is used, 3.3bpa. 3500 / 3.3 / 24 / 7 = 6.3 weeks of extreme. That's not including learns.

  3. #3
    Enthusiast Twyla's Avatar
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    There is no true cap to Sciences anymore - just diminishing returns based on SQRT(BpA).
    The only people who never make mistakes are those who never try to accomplish anything.

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    Learn Attacks

    How are gains on learn attacks? What percentage of a person's science do you take?

  5. #5
    Enthusiast Twyla's Avatar
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    9%-11% from each Science, depending on your own Gains modifiers.
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    odd ... dun forget pers and schools


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  7. #7
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    Realistically, most categories won't exceed 400-500 bpa. At 400 bpa, you're getting 20*science modifier...
    so say you have 400 bpa in tools (modifier of 1%), for a 20% BE increase. The next 1% increase requires 441 bpa... is it really worth investing 41 bpa for a 1% increase in BE? Sage can go considerably higher, but bear in mind that they still have to pay for all of this science, with no cost reduction.

    Of course if you lose land then your science rates can go much higher. I'm merely thinking about the point where investment and learn attacks produce such diminishing returns that they're not worth the cost. Too many people think Sage is about sitting on acres and pumping science all age at a fixed size, when this is about the worst way a Sage can be played.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by nooblet View Post
    Realistically, most categories won't exceed 400-500 bpa. At 400 bpa, you're getting 20*science modifier...
    so say you have 400 bpa in tools (modifier of 1%), for a 20% BE increase. The next 1% increase requires 441 bpa... is it really worth investing 41 bpa for a 1% increase in BE? Sage can go considerably higher, but bear in mind that they still have to pay for all of this science, with no cost reduction.

    Of course if you lose land then your science rates can go much higher. I'm merely thinking about the point where investment and learn attacks produce such diminishing returns that they're not worth the cost. Too many people think Sage is about sitting on acres and pumping science all age at a fixed size, when this is about the worst way a Sage can be played.
    Someone did the calculations a few ages back to determine the "max" bpa when the nw inflation v science mod becomes an issue. I'm to lazy to find it but from what i remember what nooblet says of 500 bpa is in the neighborhood with the exception of population science (which was like 2000-3000).

  9. #9
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    Well - sage + 30% libs puts it a lot higher, but those are basically the ideal situations for high BPA. I'm guessing I'm the source being cited. It should be noted that, while the sci curve is still the same, this is back from when human had the +30% sci, and it was buy-able, so it is getting a bit dated and should be used as ballpark figures only.

    Gains - no idea.
    Food - 100-200 bpa (yes, that low. Might be *higher* with fewer libs, since that's something like 120%+ food sci with both mods)
    Theivery - 300 bpa normal, 600 A/T
    Magic - 500 bpa normal, 1,000 A/M
    BE - 2,000-2,500 bpa
    Income - 2,500-3,000 bpa
    Housing - 10,000 bpa

    Of course these values are mostly meaningless unless you are deep chained and unable to grow back, since there is no way to achieve these levels otherwise. But the main point is, even at super science levels... more housing at least *does* help. Also non sages are gonna have lower "target" levels to the pop sci, and probably BE/Income, while food target probably goes *up*. (Frankly, if you think you are above the "target" - it doesn't fall off that fast, just keep dumping it into housing. You'll regrow soon, right?)
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan View Post
    I'm guessing I'm the source being cited.
    you probably are, the values u post are alot higher than i remember, but that could just be that its been so long. BTW gains is caped at 22% w/explore pool there's a HARD cap on that science, which my guess is in the 1000s bpa depending on mods.

    The concept is the same that at some point its a negative effect to keep pumping even if the numbers are insanely high and u can reach them. Realesitically though
    Quote Originally Posted by nooblet View Post
    I'm merely thinking about the point where investment and learn attacks produce such diminishing returns that they're not worth the cost.
    nooblet is right at some point u should probably just be growing in size...2-3k bpa is probably in that neighborhood.

  11. #11
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    The nw contribution of books is so small that it doesn't become relevant until a very high level. It's mostly the cost/benefit of investment... is it worth spending a day on Rushed for an increasingly infinitesimal gain, when learn attacks against you are taking about a day's worth of extreme sci investment per hit? I've made a few such hits throughout this age.

    Gains science is hella good... the only science for an attacker that they can utilize no matter what, barring the gains cap or losing their offensive ability entirely. When starting mid-age, I went with almost entirely gains science, and let the rest of the pumping server fund my science pump. Was cool.

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