Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 21 of 21

Thread: Dwarf/Mystic vs Human/Mystic

  1. #16
    Post Demon
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    noobtopia
    Posts
    1,836
    -50% Land Losses on Ambush Attacks

    The WH bonus affects acres, not combat losses.

    It's a useful bonus, but by itself is not enough to make WH competitive. Assuming the WH isn't chained or fireballed to neutralize most of it's bonuses - and WH would have to be run as a kingdom-wide strategy - is faster training and drafting going to be much stronger than OME or attack time? Probably not. WH doesn't get the means to accrue honor without non-war heroes to help, and because of that the WH in a kingdom are giant bulls-eyes to be chained sooner or later.

  2. #17
    Moderator for:
    Utopia Forums
    Palem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    22,030
    The best part of Cleric is the auto-animate dead.


    Just sayin...

  3. #18
    Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    57
    Sage is a personality that is suitable for all races throughout the ages. It is a personality that acts to negate every possible penalty a race has or extend to greater bonuses. Eventually you can see even an Undead with -25% science penalty playing Sage, can play it pretty well when he consist of millions of books in his prov.

    However, the success of the effectiveness of the Personality, imo are linked by 2 important factors. One is the protection % offered from the Sage itself, one is the defence value offered from the race itself.



    So now, lets have a look in the view of defence value. In my own way, I do not measure a race defensive strength through one military unit, I measure it by two military units. For example:

    - the defence value of an Elf is 10, 6 from its def spec and 4 from its elites
    - the defence value from Hafler is 11, 5 from its def spec and 6 from its elites.

    So in overall, the defence value of the races are such:
    - Elf = 10
    - Hafler = 11
    - Human = 10
    - Faery = 16
    - Avian = 7
    - Dwarf = 8
    - Orc = 7
    - Undead = 8

    So now, let us view from the offensive side of the overall races, imo, I measure the offensive value from a race through one military unit.

    - Orc / Undead = 9
    - Avian / Dwarf = 7
    - Elf / Human = 6
    - Hafler = 5
    - Faery = not worth mentioning xD


    So the defence value of the races are:
    - 16, 11, 10, 8, 7
    The offence value of the races are:
    - 9, 7, 6, 5

    By there you can assume that:
    - Offence 9 will be able to break into the defence of 10, 8, 7
    - Offence 7 break defence 8, 7
    - Offence 6 break defence 7
    - Offence 5.... (suggest that it would be faster if you just pump it up yourself)

    So,
    - Dwarf defence is 8
    - in natural comparison, races with offence 7 or higher will be able to break you most of the time
    - which are a total of 4 races, Orc/Undead, Avian/Dwarf players, all around the utopian world

    Take another example:
    - Humans defence is 10
    - in nature comparison, races with offence 9 will be able to break them
    - which are a total of 2 races, Orc/Undead

    Faery defence is 16, that is the reason why Faeries have always been the race which is able to maintain high level honour rank compared to others till the end of age.




    Okay, the above discussed is about the views of defence value of the races. Now lets have a look into the protection value from a Sage.

    Imo, the effectiveness of the protection value of a Sage, is related to the average books per science field you have. Lets take an example to compare between a Sage player, and a non Sage player.

    So make it easier and understandable, lets assume a few things here:
    - Learn attack gains 10% from each science field
    - Sage offer only -50% science protection
    - Non Sage players averagely has 100k books per field, in 1000 acres size
    - Sage players averagely has 200k books per field, in 1000 acres size

    So an example of books learned here are:
    - A non Sage player = 1000 acres
    - Books per field = 100k
    - 10% learned = 10k

    - A Sage player = 1000 acres
    - Books per field = 200k
    - Protection gives -50% reduction, so its a 5% learn gain
    - 5% learned = 10k, as well


    Then we have a view into the target that "suits to the standard of interest to being learned".
    Personally, I assume provs with:
    - 100k books per field, in 1000 acres size, are a standard of being a juicy target to be learned (10k books per field, per learn)

    Provs with:
    - 50k books per fied, in 1000 acres size, are safed from being learned (because to get only 5k books per field, that the return time may took more than 10 hours each attack, is a bit pathethic)


    So a Sage player with:
    - 150k * 0.10(10%) * 1/3(66% protection) = 5k
    - that means when you only have 150k books per field, don't worry you are safed from being learned

    -300k * 0.10 * 1/3 = 10k
    - that means when your books reaches 300k per field, you are placing yourself same as a non Sage players with 100k books per field, with no science protection at all

    - (so why Sage is nerfed)
    - previous -75%
    - 400k * 0.10 * 1/4 = 10k
    - a Sage player enjoy having near to 400k books per field before they put themselves the same "standard" as a 100k books per field, Non-Sage player.
    - with science effectiveness and add up libraries, the effect bonus are truely enormous
    - so the saying of Sage is a weak personality, I strongly disagree on this.
    - it is not the nerfed from -75% from -66% on this personality that makes it look weak
    - it is the overall defence value of the races that makes it look weak
    - because the overall races defence value, can no longer protect their science more effectively, like before.


    So finally let us have a look into the factors that contribute to the attackers who decided to make the learn attack:

    - how much offense I need to send out to break the target?
    - more offence sent = lower Dpa in my prov
    - more offence sent = higher military casualty
    - how many books I can gain with one learn attack?
    - is the cost of books stolen > cost of military casualties? (This depends on the cost of the offence spec or elites each races)


    So the effectiveness of a Sage personality to play out its role imo, depends and are connected by 2 factors. The defence value of a prov, and the science protection % of a Sage.

    - too low defence to break, good for me, but the books I gained are lower, but doesn't matter
    - because the cost of my military casualties are lower as well, since I need to send out lower offence to break the target
    - too high defence to break, but the books amount I gained are enormous, but doesn't matter
    - because the books I gained, are worth weeks of time for a non Sage player like me, if I were to invest on it myself on my own


    So theorically said, Dwarfs can be said as, it is a race which can be broken by "all " races at all. Why? Because the races that can break into you are:
    - Orc/Undead, Avian/Dwarf
    - These races are all belong to attacker races?

    The races that less likely to break into you are:
    - Elf/ Hafler, Faery/Human
    - These races are belong rather to t/m race?

    So logically said when a t/m race can't break into you, is logically and reasonable isn't it? Since by all means, since they are more likely as a t/m race after all. While when all the attackers are able to break into you, it naturally just mean you can be broken by "all" races in utopia.

    So when a Dwarf pick the Sage personality, you have to be mentally prepared, it will not be the same as when you played the Faeries before. You won't be able to play your prov like the Faeries to enjoy the high books per science field. Either way is that:

    - you control your greed and limit your total books per science field
    - or you use some acres to invest into Schools

    However, its another long measurement how to measure between the Schools and the Libraries, that:
    - either a lower science books per field with high libraries can give you same amount of science bonuses,
    - or a higher schools with higher books per field which can offer you the same amount of science bonuses as well

    It isn't easy just to make a choice isn't it? :\

  4. #19
    Post Demon
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    noobtopia
    Posts
    1,836
    That math assumes a Faery is using two defensive units where most races are using 1:1 dspec:elite, which probably isn't the case. Still, a Fae is going to have much higher defensive value, and the turtle power of elites is sorely underestimated by many players.

  5. #20
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    21,332
    Do no sages have the cop on to run schools any more? I shall look forward to next age if this is the case.
    Support email: utopiasupport@utopia-game.com <- please use this and don't just PM me| Account Deleted/Inactive | Utopia Facebook Page | #tactics <-- click to join IRC|
    PM DavidC for test server access

  6. #21
    Post Demon
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    noobtopia
    Posts
    1,836
    With no cost reduction and no free books, sages would be silly not to use schools often...

    ...oh wait... never mind. -_-

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •