Thanks for the input. This UD vs Orc argument is going on in my KD. They keep insisting all Undeads are better because of their hybrid potential, which I think is just wrong. The science penalty is already a severe handicap for an Undead. To be really serious in a hybrid role an undead would have to go either Rogue or Mystic which are really a waste of personality choice for a powerful attacking race.
Undead's ability to use t/m ops is very, very situational. 90% of the time your undeads are going to be no better at opping than an orc, because the ops will fail with high frequency, no matter how much effort is put into making the undead a "hybrid". Wasting a personality on "hybrid" is basically a guarantee that the undead will get chained hard, sooner or later.
If, however, you can see someone dropped to .5 tpa or something like that, then the undead has a serious case for using nightstrike. This happens far more often than you'd think in long wars.
having 3-4 rogues chain proping attackers w/o wt's or CS can be amazingly effective at removing targets tpa and opening it to NS's from attackers.
Chain propping.. lol
i'm thinking now undeads with hosps will do better one on one against the orc in long wars, simply because the undead should be able to last longer, yes orcs will come on strongest in the beginning but as war progresses undeads will start pulling ahead with more troops still in tact, elite conversions not much use if you have no troops to train, which is usually the case in long wars , orcs may have science adv. but undeads match with plagues and sci. tho is important late age, isn't what it used to be.
really depends on the quality of people and kingdoms playing the provinces. an organized kingdom with orc attackers chains the undeads before their offensive loss reduction becomes a factor, and undead's science penalty borks them before the war even starts around mid-late age. orc of course can retrain their good offensive units if they can find soldiers, and has a measure of resistance against being fireballed. the edge goes more and more in favor of orcs as the age progresses, but even late age the quality of the players matters heavily. i figure a lot of nubs will screw up with Orc somewhere, while a good undead player will play to their advantages as much as possible against orcs. of course the two can coexist this age... i am surprised people don't want to consider that a possibility, and sometimes invent reasons to do so that make no sense (like blowback from undead plague... that happens so infrequently that it's practically a non-factor, might have happened to me once the whole time I've been playing).
Another thing people have to look into with this is an Orc Cleric at a decent size, gains more credits than actual troop losses allowing them to maintain their offensive edge as well.Originally Posted by Hell Fire
thx nooblet, you have helped alot with your input on the subject, and actually my kdm is looking to be a mix of both undeads and orc, we are just a ghetto kdm yes, i'm thinking war-war-war all age for us, i'm wanting us to first learn how to fight before we even can think of going any further, you orcs gonna chain my udeads, i'm thinking , i'm gonna learn you orcs to death first, lol , i'm an undead -always have been, i see where you're coming from , makes sense to me, hopefully my orcs will balance things out abit, thx again for your advice ;)
As with this age, next age will have the same concept, if you can feed the orcs in your kd solds all war undead s simply cant keep up with the fight. That is in concept if you can feed an orc cleric solds they have effectively zero offensive losses. Early wars Undead>orc in strait 1v1 while late orc>undead due to science, however with support all the "negatives" about orc compared to undead get washed away if the orc has support from the non orcs in the kd via that sold aid..
Undead Mystic FTW. If you're active throw in some TG / Rax / GS / Hospitals and always have your elites out and LL to hell when you've been chained to stop overpop. Can easily LL 100+acres mid war at 400 acres as your WPA will increase.
Rogues as an attackers I've always thought useless as if you're overpopped they do not work like wizzards do due to house shortages.
Always prefered undead to orc due to plague. You get it on the it can make the difference of a double tap to a triple tap or triple to quad tap!
Lots of people, including a few in my kd, played UD/Mystic this age. The results weren't pretty.
gonna be worse next age without NM
If used in the right way and you mainly LL low NWPA targets with crap WPA in your NW range they can be quite effective especially if you've been chained to hell and you still have a large amount of elites due back. You need to LL before your troops get home with Land and your WPA declines...
Yeah loss of NM sucks but they can still screw up provs at beggining with Chas and FB. Theyre only good at opping attackers though, no one else. I'd have been interested running an undead/rogue but "Your thieves refuse to go to work due to house shortages" would make them pointless...
*Edit*
Another benefit of undead over orc is no food which is another 8-12% (depending on how much science you have) So being from a ghetto I spose you wouldn't need to worry about your prov or others starving through lack of aid...
Think the obvious personality for both races should be warrior. +10% OME was sweet but +15% and an extra general?! I think this game is going more towards frequent wars with the changes so 5 taps in a war will be lethal and with conquest enhanced and undead the chances of plagueging a turtler makes them ever sweeter than orc in my eyes. + outside war plundering and learning to grow is a way forward for an undead. Thats why the warrior is good as you get an extra general all age.
Last edited by American Badass; 07-05-2012 at 19:51.
The chief ops the UD/Mystics were using were fireball and chastity, later in the age once they realized that Meteors is a hella difficult spell. NM is nice if it can be coordinated, but also quite difficult and expensive, and doesn't always connect for big damage.
I'd say UD/Mystic is okay, but magic is situational while the undead attack power is consistently good, so you'd have to devote considerable resources to play undead with a more defensive posture. I'd actually think this age UD/Mystic has it better due to the huge buffs for mystic and the Undead inheriting Town Watch and Animate Dead to boost their defense, but they suffer from the same problems all a/ms do - the difficulty of getting a good wpa and rune supply, while still being a competent attacker. Having a science penalty makes this even more problematic.
UD/Rogue is crap no matter how it's played. Don't do it.
LOL give undead no runes needed would just be A LEET RACE!
I miss my Dark Elf :'(
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote