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Thread: calculating Avian attack time

  1. #1
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    calculating Avian attack time

    Hello, been playing a long time, but still confused about the base attack time in war from the Guide. I need 9 hour attack times in order to attack twice a day because I am away from home for 14 hours on workdays. So my questions are:

    1) after war declaration does distance penalty still apply for the first 24 hours?
    2) what is the actual base attack time, is it 14.6
    3) is it possible to get 9 hour attack times with any other race than Avian

    greatly appreciate any input you have, thanks

  2. #2
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    1. Not sure, probably
    2. 16 hours
    3. maybe with very high rax & BE and tact but probably not practical
    This is my province. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    My province is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
    My province, without me, is useless. Without my province, I am useless.
    I must attack hard with my province. I must attack harder than my enemy who is trying to pk me. I must pk him before he pk's me. I will...

  3. #3
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    Non TM attacks are *not* -2 or -4 hours as listed, but are in fact -12.5% and -25% attack times. (Er, except maybe for distance and NW penalties? As noted, these don't apply once war starts.) You could consider using a mass/learn/plunder for your short 9 hour window to let other races pull it off.

    Min TM attack times in war:
    War base
    0.375 0.25 0.15 0.1 12.8
    Rax Avian Tact QF Time
    0 0 0 0 12.8
    0 0 0 1 11.52
    0 0 1 0 10.88
    0 0 1 1 9.792
    0 1 0 0 9.6
    0 1 0 1 8.64 - invalid
    0 1 1 0 8.16
    0 1 1 1 7.344 - invalid
    1 0 0 0 8
    1 0 0 1 7.2
    1 0 1 0 6.8
    1 0 1 1 6.12
    1 1 0 0 6
    1 1 0 1 5.4 - invalid
    1 1 1 0 5.1
    1 1 1 1 4.59 - invalid

    Remember there is a hard limit of 6 hours, which I *think* is checked after the attack type mod as well... so any setup with under <=8 hours for TM *should* have hard cap 6 on ambush. Note rax is 50% land @ 100% BE - not practical, but with BE > 100% it doesn't take much lower to drop the land % large amounts.

    So, for example, a Dwarf *can* get 8 hour attack times, but at the cost of 29% land in rax (@ 100 BE, which dwarf can do)

    Dwarf Tact can get 8 hour attacks even easier, with 17% land @ 90 BE. And those are 8, instead of your requested 9, hour attacks.


    Tact + QF = -23.5% attack time reduction... so that is almost as good as being avian. Thus any race with QF is open to you, at the cost of tact - or avian + anything. Races lacking QF *could* be made to work for your requirement, but will require a lot more rax, and risk gold/pk/churn breaking your schedule.
    it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)

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  4. #4
    Needs to get out more DHaran's Avatar
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    Why do you insist on complicating every single topic you respond to Ethan? He asked simple questions that needed simple answers, as demonstrated by Landro.
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  5. #5
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    Yet Landro's response is misleading - any race with QF and Tact is basically just as good as Avian. Similarly, if the OP is willing to risk heavily using a building, he can get there with *any* race and tact. Also, using different attack times is a relevant idea in the OP's situation. Nowhere in Landro's post do I see mention of these options.

    Note that I'm only really addressing question #3, so Landro's post is essential as well. Although now that I read it again, I think the answer to #1 is wrong. I know from this current war that the *NW different* penalty goes away as soon as war starts. I believe the island distance penalty also does so.
    it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)

    Think Different

  6. #6
    Needs to get out more DHaran's Avatar
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    That's my point, you spit out all that crap without even correctly answering the questions the guy asked the first time. Keep it simple.

    And yes, distance and NW penalties are gone immediately in war.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan View Post
    any race with QF and Tact is basically just as good as Avian. Similarly, if the OP is willing to risk heavily using a building, he can get there with *any* race and tact.
    Why not just say that?

    It took me a couple minutes just to figure out what your chart was even saying, for a conclusion that's really not that surprising.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verbal Abuse View Post
    Hello, been playing a long time, but still confused about the base attack time in war from the Guide. I need 9 hour attack times in order to attack twice a day because I am away from home for 14 hours on workdays. So my questions are:

    1) after war declaration does distance penalty still apply for the first 24 hours?
    2) what is the actual base attack time, is it 14.6
    3) is it possible to get 9 hour attack times with any other race than Avian

    greatly appreciate any input you have, thanks
    1. I'm pretty sure there's no penalty really, it's just the lack of the intra island bonus (10% or so). I.e it never disappears
    2. 16 hours, like Landro said
    3. A Dwarf would probably be an option, considering they have high BE and Quick Feet (as tactician it would definitely be doable). The others aren't very practical, like Landro said, since you'd need to spend more land than most people want to on barracks

    @Ethan:
    I'm pretty sure that it is in fact implemented as -hours, just that they're applied before any other attack speed bonuses, so it's -2 and -4 to the base time.

  9. #9
    You have to Anon every hit so don't forget that.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luc View Post
    @Ethan:
    I'm pretty sure that it is in fact implemented as -hours, just that they're applied before any other attack speed bonuses, so it's -2 and -4 to the base time.
    Nope. As an Undead tact not running Rax, base attack times are 13.6 hours. Doing a plunder should put me at 11.6 hours but instead its 11.9, which is indeed -12.5% attack time.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demascus View Post
    Nope. As an Undead tact not running Rax, base attack times are 13.6 hours. Doing a plunder should put me at 11.6 hours but instead its 11.9, which is indeed -12.5% attack time.
    Nope, you misunderstood. (16-2)*0.85=11.9. Hours are subtracted before bonuses, including the tactician bonus. Base time is 16 hours for everyone, always (then you add island bonus and war bonus and such).

  12. #12
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    Someone can test this by finding a target with island distance penalty, and NW penalty. (So actually, 4 targets - 1 with neither, 2 of 1 with each, 1 with both.) Plunder/learn them. As long as NW doesn't change much, the TM time listed is correct.

    Also, 2 provs with sufficiently similar NW (or 1 with QF) can test how the attack time penalties are impacted by -attack time mods.

    The upshot is, -12.5% and -2 off of base are exactly the same *unless* other values "add" to the base. Since we see all race/personality/spell/war attack mods are multiplied... that leaves only island and NW.
    it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)

    Think Different

  13. #13
    Needs to get out more DHaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luc View Post
    Nope, you misunderstood. (16-2)*0.85=11.9. Hours are subtracted before bonuses, including the tactician bonus. Base time is 16 hours for everyone, always (then you add island bonus and war bonus and such).
    It's the same thing.

    16 * .875 * .85 = 11.9

    (16-2) * .85 = 11.9
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  14. #14
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    Ah - but if there are *other* added factors, then it matters. (As per my above post)

    (16 + x ) *.875 != 16 + x - 2

    Of course, if island and NW are also multiplied, then

    16 * x * .875 = (16 - 2) * x


    I don't know which we have, someone probably should test it.
    it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)

    Think Different

  15. #15
    Needs to get out more DHaran's Avatar
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    Attack Time = Base Attack Time * Race Bonus * Personality Bonus * Barracks Bonus * Quick Feet
    * Anonymity * Stance * Attack Type * War * NW Mod
    Don't need to test it because there is no mystery to attack times.
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