Lebanon, I'm also a Dwarf A/M. I just feel that warrior is more beneficial to that.
A Dwarf Warrior is an good mage and good attacker.
A Dwarf Mystic is an good mage, and a subpar attacker.
Mystic doesn't enhance your ability to be an A/M. You and I will have the same WPA. It only allows you to cast 1 extra spell every few hours. I don't think that is worth sacrificing 18% offense.
Jotun/Leb - The reason many say you need banks is that if you if you run 200% wages, you will most likely have problems paying for the upkeep. (Depends on your sci levels I suppose) How about Dragons ?
Also you say you will do learns OOW - how do you get learns done and keep up with replacing your elites if you get max 5k gc/h ?
"clearsight/fana/quickfeet is a GOOD spellbook" - Yes it's a nice spellbook, but you don't need to be a mystic to utilize this.
You will also probably have to pump some wizzies between wars as mystic as well. 9% guilds might not be enough to account for your growth during wars. Unless your KD likes to landdrop a lot between wars..
Like nooblet and others said, go with another personality, so in case this won't work out, you can still enjoy a good age as an attacker instead of locking yourself in the a/m role.
Last edited by Quacky-T; 10-05-2012 at 07:00.
It took me about 4.5 raw for 15 mod Jotun, sage with MF and a litle bit of honour. Piling mods is a good thing.
And most ppl dont run 1 mod wpa so you could cast at will at them, 2 mod or higher is much more realistic. Also dont forget you need some buffer in your wpa to support growth and not render your wpa useless wit 2 hits in war.
I am pretty sure if you go mystic you will end up maintaining greeds in the end, and that seems a waste of personality to me.
Sage is much better option imo and you get strong bpa with dorf no mater how much you war with some creative build rotating and doing lots of learns midage and onward. You dont need stellar sci to make sage worthwhile on hybrid, 1k bpa with 250-300 bpa in channeling and some libs will allrdy make huge impact on your province and give you needed space efficency.
to summarize, imo go sage and target at 10+ wpa midage onward and focus on fb spamming to get the most out of dorf a/m
i sort of understand...i finally did the rune calcs and needed tower %.
at 10% towers for a dwarf/mystic, all it does is allow me to cast about 12 more fireballs/hr than a sage with 10% towers cause of the +1 mana
and i finally made the connection with mystic not benefiting dwarf other than ms/greed. seems like they are only suited for fireballing with the 30% spell damage
sage seems like the correct pick for dwarf a/m since theyd have more income, BE, offense (just no +1 mana) but im not sure if i want to play that combo. i may have to rethink EVERYTHING
With smartly placed science you can free up a lot. 100% in magic channeling gives you x 2 rune production also and + population means you can bolster offense or wizards a lot more to hit high Wpa. You also got the option mid age to switch to A/T if need be!
IMO:
sage is almost always a good choice for ppl who want to play 2 roles / hybrid
but lebanon, can i ask what kind of hybrid you wanna be ??? i think before you choose your persona or race or even building strategy, you should define your goal first ... you want "more attack, less mage" or "more mage, less attack" ??? if you wanna do more attack less mage i think u should consider dwarf warrior or sage ... if you wanna do more mage less attack why not elf instead of dwarf ??? coz i have seen good a/M and i have seen good A/m but have never seen anyone do equally good as A/M ... but maybe that's just me
i want
- to enter wars with 100 opa/40 dpa with armies out
- high GS, and ability to landlust when chained to counter overpop
- high t/m defense (high wpa, decent tpa +CS + WTs)
- to be able to **** people up with tornado/fireball
- to be able to attack really fast if i want to
chose sage already
16*.8*.9*.68= 7.83 but this is WITH 33% Rax which IMO is way to high
.8 is war
.9 is QF
.68 is rax (32% effect)
Don't shoot yourself in the leg by picking mystic for dwarf.
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Even at 20% guilds a dwarf mystic can produce ~0.23 wpa raw every 24 hours, and with their pump ability a dwarf mystic can easily get whatever wpa it wants fast. So, for example, at 40% guilds they can train more than 0.44 wpa in 24 hours. It's easy enough to rebuild 20% of your land as a dwarf. I'm not for or against the dwarf mystic combo, but don't listen to people who say your wpa will be too weak to cast effectively on most attackers. Dwarves can pump anything fast, and a dwarf mystic's wizard pumping ability is phenomenal.
Well you go mystic for the +1 mana and MS. Its not that he won't be able to cast on attackers effectively, its that he wont be able to effectively get MS off kinda neutralizing half of the reason to go Mystic
Why won't a dwarf mystic be able to effectively cast MSs? My point is a dwarf mystic can have whatever effectiveness it wants, or at least what it has space for. It affects income and BE if you carry a very high raw wpa, but it's still powerful. As a dwarf mystic, if you want to have a wpa capable of casting MSs you can and easily. You can also do plenty of damage with tornadoes or fireballs at +30% and duration spells are +50%, not to mention the fact that being able to defend against other mages will be important this age and while an elf or faery mystic could still cast on a dwarf mystic it's far less likely they can or will. There may be stronger combos depending on what you want, but some of these comments really underestimate the mystic and the dwarf's pump ability. I'll fear dwarf mystics until I get a sense of their wpa this age, because if they're committed to having powerful wizards they easily can. Anyway, have fun and play what you want. Just sayin'.
Generally speaking, you need at least twice the net WpA as your targets to reliably cast 'lesser' spells such as Fireball. Meteor Showers and Land Lust are more difficult spells and require closer to triple the WpA of your opponent to cast reliably. Though the BE bonus and Channeling Science stack in regards to Rune Production, that's still a buttload being wasted on fizzles (as well as potential Wizard losses) if your WpA isn't high enough to get through reliably.
At least that's how I understand it.
Last edited by Twyla; 10-05-2012 at 19:53. Reason: Left out a word
The only people who never make mistakes are those who never try to accomplish anything.
It's more like 4x, discounting the times you'd need to cast Vortex to strip away buffs like Reflect Magic and Magic Shield to make your ops more valuable.
On Meteors - That op should be left to dedicated t/ms anyway, since you only need about 2 t/ms to cover Meteors on all enemy provinces. If you have attackers trying to cast Meteors, what happens when said attacker gets chained, and has a harder time getting the necessary runes or targetting an enemy's largest provinces? The same goes with other ops an a/m would want to run - when you get chained, your towers are trashed, and rune costs increase for smaller provinces, and finally size difference makes ops harder and less effective on the provinces you'd want to op. That is why an attacking mystic has to be played very carefully, because chaining such a province produces great rewards and such a province at the bottom is less effective than a strict warring personality.
Since my kingdom warred yours (Jotun/Lebanon)'s last age, I think I can say a few things...
- We had Undead/Mystics last age as I alluded to in another thread, and putting up meteors was difficult with a lot of mage pumping. Most of the a/ms gave up on Meteors and stuck with FB+Chastity to make life easier.
- Since Cleric chaining came up (I don't know why); when a province runs very high offense, low defense, high draftrates with homes and low BE, any personality is easy to chain. Even then we didn't want to chain the Clerics, but we had to take down some of the high-honor and high-offense ones because those were the best chain targets, and if we did not put enough attacks into them we were shooting ourselves in the foot. This goes back to Mystic (and Rogue) as well - chaining Hybrids is a good way to make such provinces incapable of doing much of anything, forcing them to release their thieves and wizzies if they want to stay afloat.
- Elf/Mystic is difficult to play right, but chances are your a/m wants to have a substantial defense and doesn't need a huge offense. a/m running high offense is guaranteed to get chained... at 6/6, Elf armies are about even with Dwarves, if they are adopting a more balanced offense/defense strategy. Elf Lords are better at turtling as well, and odds are an Elf can keep some of their elites at home to keep their defense higher. Your big elf's problem wasn't its army or build choice, but because it was played by a nub who wasn't using its size and army in the best possible way... had it been in the hands of a decent player we would have had a much harder war. Fortunately for us it didn't happen.
Originally Posted by Lebanon
lol... citas 15 wpa stemmed from 4 raw, with 150% sci and VC honour and mages fury-.- you lose alot not picking sage and going for a race with MF. i didnt break 4 raw all age and i was close to 20 wpa at the same time he was 15^^ attackers by midage have about 3 mod wpa, you need 12+ to cast MS on that. Most times later in age you want to be fbing sages or turtles, they usually have above average wpa, so 15 wpa is not an overestimate for a hybrid that will grow during war....
for a warring kd, sage is of greater importance than a non warring kd... winning a war = free sci pump.... you say you want 7 wars this age, if you win 5 then theres ur 500bpa... sage didnt get a nerf with the mechanic changes... people are blinded by the obvious.
Last edited by crease; 12-05-2012 at 13:03.
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