How did the European Union become such a messed up democracy

[Sticky]

countries need to take back their banking from the IMF / WB organizations and flush them from their ranks.

They are the true enemies to freedom.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to allow a for profit institution to print your own currency then loan it to you?.. collect interest, demand payment in real assets?

mobilize the military, seize their assets, and try them for their crimes against humanity.

[sheeplovebeer]

One big problem with the EU is the language barriers. 23 official languages is not maintainable in the long run. That excludes minority languages that is over 100.

Different languages (even different dialects do, but much less) creates a natural "we and them"-attitude. Such attitude creates misunderstandings and conflicts which are contra-productive for any union.

Sure, in most areas in EU, English is well understood as a second language by at least the younger population. But it is IMO a huge difference between using a native language compared a second.

Actually I believe that if there where a lot fewer languages in the world then there would be a lot fewer conflicts.

Nope, the main problem is single currency and different strengths of economies. Greece would not be in as much trouble if they had a floating currency

[freemehul]

floating currency is a greek currency floating downwards

empires have fallen because of that... the most famous example Rome with its continually devalued currency

you can float all you want, bottomline is that if the intrinsic value of currency is no good, then the currency is no good... and why is a currency no good... lousy government, lousy demographics, not enough underlying assets, bad trade balance, not enough production etcetera etcetera

[beerdwarf]

floating currency is a greek currency floating downwards

empires have fallen because of that... the most famous example Rome with its continually devalued currency

you can float all you want, bottomline is that if the intrinsic value of currency is no good, then the currency is no good... and why is a currency no good... lousy government, lousy demographics, not enough underlying assets, bad trade balance, not enough production etcetera etcetera

...and lazy people who cannot be bothered working

[freemehul]

...and lazy people who cannot be bothered working

the greek aren't lazy... the real trouble is the corruption and the rampant poverty because of that corruption... look at it micro-economically:

say you're a manager in a government agency and you need to cut jobs... who do you lay-off? Why it is the hard-working employees of course, this sounds counter-intuitive... but it is in fact what happens and here is why...

those hard working employees are there by their own merit. The ones who don't show up, and who do hardly any work at all, are the nephews of the politicians. And as a manager you can't lay off those nephews, because then you are certain to lose your own job. So to save your own skin, you're going to fire the hard working employees and hope for the better (which never does occur).

-> then what happens to those employees who get fired? -> well, they are still productive individuals, so the first thing they'll try to do is to find a new job. When that job is nowhere to be found, which is the case in these times, because the unemployment rates are massively high in countries such as Greece and Spain -> so when they eventually realise that fails, then they'll try to start up their own enterprise... ah but here is the problem... by the time they start up their own enterprise there either isn't enough capital, or if there is enough capital by some miracle (say an inheritance) you either can't use it to start up an enterprise, because you're blocked by red-tape -> why is there red tape? because all the hard working government employees have been fired -> when that happens you're stuck and even productive people will become passive in those circumstances... or say by the remote chance you get through the red tape.. you will find that your business fails... why does the business fail? -> because everyone else is keeping a tight lid on their expenses, hence no money is to be made. The solution that problem is to move your business elsewhere... ah but here it means that your country will never move forward and there is the increased risk that your foreign invested business may fail too. The odds are higher for that, because (a) you don't know the country as well as your own, (b) you don't have as many connections as in your own, and (c) you're still vulnerable to the corruption in your own country. The smart productive people will do nothing in this situation, because it is the best and cleverest thing they can do. Afterall, why risk the money you have left into a fruitless enterprise? If you're smart, you won't. If you're stupid, you will and then you're worse off. Most people however will do something, they will start a business, but one that doesn't require a lot of investment and hence often doesn't create a lot of jobs, hence unemployment will remain high.


so bottomline is people aren't lazy... they are made lazy or made to appear lazy and they are made that way because of a corrupt system and poverty. It is a vicious cycle. Deal with the corruption and business will increase, when business increases, trade will rise and it becomes a catalyst for more enterprise and hence more production will occur. So there is a way out of this mess, it is just that now they (and also we) are being taken deeper into the mess we are currently all in (for a greater or lesser extent). The reason why they're getting deeper into the mess (and so are we) is because IMF, EU ask for more cuts... the reason that they ask for more cuts is because it is their only rational alternative, since they can't trust the Greek politicians. They can't trust them, because they know they're corrupt. Note the difference between knowing and believing they can't be trusted, because to know is an absolute certainty when it comes to trust (believes about trust placed into people can be altered). You see most money in Swiss banks (who are contributors to such organisations as the IMF and the world bank) is from tax-evaders and the biggest individual tax-evaders of all are: (1) corrupt politicians and (2) rich enterpreneurs with a powerful lobby and hence means and incentive to either keep things as they are, or to keep making things worse (i.e. more monopolies, kartels etcetera).

Thus the solution is a good and effective reform, and if that reform can't happen... well then first people will try to ride it out (this is what is happening now), however there comes a time, especially if things get worse that they will lose their patience. Why do they lose their patience? Because people may be shortsighted, but they aren't stupid. When you are in a strategic situation that is desperate, you will do the one best thing that you can do and that is to fight.

...and when that happens, you better be weary....

because then (should I dare say it?), you'll have a more aggressive, more bloody solution for this problem and that is... revolution

The reason you need to be weary of the latter, is because there is an old 19th century saying "revolutions eat their own children". This saying aludes to an event in the late 18th century, simply known by the French as "La terreur". If you don't know what that means, then I really suggest you look it up.


Now I can understand why to you they appear as lazy, because that is your own misperception. And you're definitely not alone nor unique in that, nor is it something that is unique to our own time.

look at it historically:

There is an ancient Roman historian by the name of Tacitus, who wrote a book about the Germanic tribes. Do you know what this man from Italy said about the Germans? He said and I quote: "they are lazy, and the keep to themselves, huddled together in their huts throughout the entire winter". He, like you are, was shortsighted, biased, and had grave misperceptions. I would not call him stupid, nor would I call you stupid, even clever people can be biased. Being raised in the affluent Roman Empire, he did not understand poverty like the Germanic peasants. Being born in Italy south from the Alps and thus shielded from the cold winter winds in Northern Europe, he did not understand the cold harsh winters, because no such winters were to be found in Italy.

So again I say to you... they are not lazy, they are poor and made passive and their government is ineffective and feeble as its best, and corrupt and tyrannical at its worst. And I also give a warning to you... corrupt politicans prey on those who are shortsighted, biased and misperceived like yourself, because those are the easiest made victim to their schemes.

You better hope the Greeks and alike will find politicians with integrity, because the corrupt are blinded by greed and these politicians will never seek to reform. They can't understand that their own actions may benefit themselves in the short run, but will be to deficit of everyone (ultimately including themselves) in the long run. Why? Because they to are shortsighted and biased like you are. They think that because they are rich, that they must somehow be superior to all others and that is by far, a worse misperception than yours about lazyness. ...And be weary of the corrupt that say they seek to reform, because they are the true wolves in sheep's clothing.

Why do I warn you, because in the long run it is not in your interest to remain biased, nor is it my interest that you remain biased.


^By the way...If you understand that sentence, you will also see why there is a way out of this mess. And such people who also understand this, can win. I would only need to point you at how things have changed in both Northern Europe and Southern Europe and compare it to past and present times and you will see why that is so

And perhaps this final warning... don't be misguided by your positive sense of the world and think that "La terreur" can't happen anymore, because somehow we know better now, then we did then. Because then you still haven't grasped it.

You see other than the greedy politician and the honest politician, there is also a third type of politican, namely the politician that means well, but has no wisdom and that wants to reform, but can't distinct the corrupt from the honest. This third type of politician, who is paranoid but very active and motivated, is the one who will react in the one way that he can...oh he will fight for reform allright... he will fight violently... and in that process this one will destroy