Hitting outside 20% NW range

[Blindman]

What do I need to know?

Is it different in war, is it worth hitting people 30% or 40% of your NW?

[Luc]

Worth it for what reason? You're not gonna get good gains in war either, though they will be slightly better due to gains from explore pool. Also there's a minimum gain of something around 3% in war.

[Natsu]

It's best to hit people within 20% below you to 33% larger than you to get decent gains. The best gains come from provinces closest to you NW range and with larger amounts of acres. Otherwise you are shooting yourself in the foot in a sense by crap gains and if someone catches your mistake then they'll get easy acres.

[Blindman]

What I meant was if someone is say 30% below, I know the gains will be less but how much less? 10% 50%?

I didn't know the limit was higher for people with a greater NW than you, I thought i was just -+20%.

[Natsu]

The gains become nerfed more the further you go outside of your range and I think it's 1% loss for every 1% NW difference you're outside of the decent gain mark (could be wrong on this). Hard to say because I always attacked those around my size.

[Susie D.]

The gains become nerfed more the further you go outside of your range and I think it's 1% loss for every 1% NW difference you're outside of the decent gain mark (could be wrong on this). Hard to say because I always attacked those around my size.

It's nice that you're trying to help, but when you don't know the numbers, don't make stuff up. ;)

The guide is quite clear on gains (although Orc's gains are still listed as laste age's +25%): http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...g#Attack_Gains


The part that matters here is that the gains are multiplied by the Province Networth Factor, defined as follows:

Relative Province Networth (rpnw) = Targets Networth / Self Networth

Province Networth Factor = DEPEND ( rpnw ) :

rpnw < 0.567 = 0
0.567 < rpnw < 0.9 = 3 * rpnw - 1.7
0.9 < rpnw < 1.1 = 1
1.1 < rpnw < 1.6 = -2 * rpnw + 3.2
rpnw > 1.6 = 0

[Blindman]

I have seen the formula in the guide but I don't understand it.

Can someone with a better understanding explain it.

Say gains for:

60, 70, 80% enemy networth targets (say for a 1k acre province attacking another 1k acre province)

[Persain]

I have seen the formula in the guide but I don't understand it.

Can someone with a better understanding explain it.

Say gains for:60, 70, 80% enemy networth targets (say for a 1k acre province attacking another 1k acre province)

Base gains is 12%...assume no science and not avain/orc, and same kd nw. 1k attacks 1k is 120 ac

56.7%%-90% your size mean you use 0.567 < rpnw < 0.9 = 3 * rpnw - 1.7
60%:120*( 3*.6-1.7)=12 acre gain
70%:120*( 3*.7-1.7)=48 acre gain
80%:120*( 3*.8-1.7)=84 acre gain

[Red]

Why would you hit smaller anyway?? o.O

[nooblet]

In war, you want to make sure every one of your hits count for something. If you hit a target 1x that is much smaller than you, the gains will be horrible. Common mistake in ghettoes in putting all hits on a single province without regard to nw gains, under the impression that they're "chaining" when they're really just piling hits on a single target and hoping to force overpopulation. It doesn't work very well.

Also note that hitting provinces smaller than you incurs a penalty to combat losses, and bottomfeeds cause less defensive losses for the defender.

That said, it's common for provinces to make 1 or 2 hits on a target as close to your nw range as possible, and use the remaining generals to hit a small province with little or no defense. The gains will be horrible, but the few extra acres grabbed can be useful, and if those small hits force overpopulation then they're worth it. However, doing this can rob your small provinces of acres, and give the bottomfed province a substantial ME boost, so the results better be worth it.

Raze damage is independent of relative nw, but affected by other things with affect gains.
Learn and Plunder have a different formula for gains, but I can't recall it offhand. The minimum gains on Learn/Plunder are really low, and they should not be used unless the war is already won, and should never be used on targets that could be hit for good gains with traditional march.

Sometimes it's necessary to hit targets far above your nw. Successive hits on a target with higher nw have an advantage in that, as the target falls in size, gains will increase rather than decrease for the rest of your kingdom. This is especially useful if you have a target outside your nw range with exceptionally low defense.