Romney or Obama?

[John Snowstorm]

Except that the 6% return is a cap, not the required dividend

Not exactly correct, the 6% dividend is a statutory payout that must be paid regardless of what the systems profits are, the surplus then goes over to the treasury.

The cheap loans the banks get is how money supply is increased within the economy. You can argue that this is not the best way to do that, but it seems that people who spend their lives studying this very question haven't come up with a better way.

they can sure as **** not have the CEOs of the banks in question on the board of the group deciding where the free money goes. Conflict of Interest.

The Federal Reserve system has only presidentially nominated people on its board. The Federal Reserve Banks have some government and some private appointees. However, the members of the federal reserve banks are designed to be in a minority in any voting that happens, and the board of governors of the Federal Reserve System are in the majority.

I'm well aware, you say it as if it's a revelation. The fact remains that it is not answerable to the executive or legislative branches. Its decisions or even decision making process on monetary policy can not be part of any audit and its stated purpose is to have part public and part private aspects.

[barbrolie]

Not exactly correct, the 6% dividend is a statutory payout that must be paid regardless of what the systems profits are, the surplus then goes over to the treasury.

I double checked, and you're right. It is a legislated rate, not a floating rate.

I'm well aware, you say it as if it's a revelation. The fact remains that it is not answerable to the executive or legislative branches. Its decisions or even decision making process on monetary policy can not be part of any audit and its stated purpose is to have part public and part private aspects.

It is not answerable to the legislative branch in so far as it is independent to make monetary policy for a good reason, because politics should not determine monetary policy. Also, the Federal Reserve System is answerable to the Congress; the only immunity it has is in the formation and execution of the monetary policy.

Yes, its charter has a private component to it. Still, it is not a privately-owned entity.

:-)

Since my facts don't agree with your facts, can we just agree to disagree and go back to bashing Romney and Obama?

[John Snowstorm]

our facts agree reasonably well, I think we just disagree on what constitutes an institution working for the public benefit and what constitutes an institution working for the benefit of private interests. I don't subscribe to the general mentality of Washington that helping the banks is ipso facto helping the economy and the public.

btw, they are not only exempt from audit on their monetary policy but also on a few other things like dealings with other foreign central banks etc.

obamasucks romneysucks systemsucks

who would like to see a round based voting system?

[barbrolie]

our facts agree reasonably well, I think we just disagree on what constitutes an institution working for the public benefit and what constitutes an institution working for the benefit of private interests. I don't subscribe to the general mentality of Washington that helping the banks is ipso facto helping the economy and the public.

btw, they are not only exempt from audit on their monetary policy but also on a few other things like dealings with other foreign central banks etc.

+1

who would like to see a round based voting system?

What is that?

[John Snowstorm]

I probably don't have the right name for it, but the system where you have two or more votes and eliminate the least popular candidates after each vote. They have it in France, although theirs is a little more complicated than I have outlined ofc.

Would mean you could have viable 3rd party candidates, who people could vote on without worrying about 'splitting the vote', you can vote for Ron Paul or Rocky Anderson or whoever you like and if they don't have the support you can vote again for the more mainstream candidates.

[DHaran]

Anyone with the religious beliefs of Romney is clearly mentally unfit for public office.

[flutterby]

Anyone with the religious beliefs of Romney is clearly mentally unfit for public office.

Why?

[octobrev]

Religion is as bad as schizophrenia

[barbrolie]

Religion is as bad as schizophrenia

^^ agreed. Though if it was purely a personal belief that didn't necessarily play a part in public life, I could live with a religious person holding the highest office in the land. Seldom happens, though.

Makes me think of a quote I saw on Dawkin's website, "Religion is like a penis. It is fine to have one. It is fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my children's throats."

[Magn]

I probably don't have the right name for it, but the system where you have two or more votes and eliminate the least popular candidates after each vote. They have it in France, although theirs is a little more complicated than I have outlined ofc.

Would mean you could have viable 3rd party candidates, who people could vote on without worrying about 'splitting the vote', you can vote for Ron Paul or Rocky Anderson or whoever you like and if they don't have the support you can vote again for the more mainstream candidates.

Yeah, I really wish we had something like that here.

Our overall electoral system is probably one of the most retarded in the western world.

It is fine as long as we elect minority governments, but the moment you elect a majority government, you are pretty much stuck with a 4 years dictatorship.

And vote splitting is terrible.

Last election, the conservatives got a 4 years majority with a bit less than 40% of the popular vote.

We are in dire need of electoral reforms.

Anyone with the religious beliefs of Romney is clearly mentally unfit for public office.

Depends how good they are at putting a lid on their religious beliefs.

Our PM is very out there in his religious beliefs, but if there is one thing he has done well so far, it's to keep a lid on it in public (then again, "God bless the country", "I'm a God fearing man and proud of it" and all that crap wouldn't fly here so it's a savvy political decision as well).

However, it does curtail some of his policies... his unconditional support to Israel in the middle east being a prime example of this.

Overall, he's very dogmatic on some issues unfortunately, but sometimes, I wonder how much of it is religious and how much of it is social conservatism (though they do seem to go in hand very often).

[John Snowstorm]

I wonder how much of it is religious and how much of it is social conservatism (though they do seem to go in hand very often).

I have yet to hear good secular arguments for social conservatism, that's not say they don't exist, I just haven't heard them, so in my experience it always, not just very often.

[goodz]

They should simply allow china/russia to rule USA for a decade or two. Wouldn't be long before USA was a manufacturing power with almost 0 National debt. Sure poverty etc. would be on the rise but the economy would be in better shape.

[Agronaut]

i would agree that religion and politics dont mix. be kinda like the arian brotherhood and black panthers starting a day care center. a politician lie cheats ,steals and brown noses his way to the top. a religious person should be honest and of faith. so how can you be both


mormons are wierd anyway, have a couple in the family. they freak me out they are way to clean and perfect. everyone has chaos in thier life, its human nature. most dont care to hide it because its small. the ones that seem to have nothing wrong are normaly the worst. almost every mormon ive met is like them family members of mine. lets just say wierd and creepy

[Landro]

But isn't voting Republican or Democrat the same thing that we've been doing over and over again, expecting change?

Isn't a two party system great?

In the Netherlands people have lots of choice but that brings it's own problems because forming a majority can often be very difficult. But at least we have more choice than just 2 figureheads on corporate strings.

[Mary Lennox]

Religion is as bad as schizophrenia

I don't know man; schizophrenia freaks me out. At least I can prove to myself that I'm not religious.