faeries

[Kemia]

looks like no one does that to your kd's fearies...nice honor. Be a shame if every kd thought like you did and ravaged all that honor from your feary dukes....then again thats if you'd war someone who could.


how about half/honor bonus then and a much needed "buff". If fearies are the only race that can reasonably hold onto honor make it less important for them.

Could you imagine a warring faery KD?

[br3nt00]

if u can trad a faery you are suiciding, and not a help to ur kd because you'll be 300 acres by the time ur army gets home. good luck hitting that faery more than once. got a whole kd of suiciders? it doesnt end well.

[Landro]

if u can trad a faery you are suiciding, and not a help to ur kd because you'll be 300 acres by the time ur army gets home. good luck hitting that faery more than once. got a whole kd of suiciders? it doesnt end well.

25 suiciders vs. 25 Faeries :D

[Elurin]

Faeries are played wrongly if they need honor to be good. They increase in honor, yes, but they're great even before that as this is early age when everyone else also have less wpa. A sure sign of someone who doesn't understand how you build provs is when they post tpa/wpa/dpa numbers in a generic way and believes it :) A faery that keeps 20 dpa more than highest opa in range can, across the age, have great damage output all age. Furthermore you have a great adaptability where you can use the faery in many different roles depending on your opponent, and such an ability is impossible to show in calcs but invaluable ingame.

[goran]

If a faery can be used in many different roles, then what are these roles?

[Peto]

@goran

not attacker :)
but the rest

fund dragons
send aid
kill dragons
thief
mage
and so on...

What you choose to do is of course based on what the enemy has and what he does.
And what you do change from one thing to another depending on where in the war you are.

[Hurlin]

Could you imagine a warring faery KD?

Yeh I can............. they where called Pansies

[Palem]

<3 Pansies

and the other's who have tried it :)

[Evillone]

Ok, ran some quick numbers, although as Sillurin pointed out its a bit arbitrary to do so. A faery rouge with 300 bpa split evenly between pop magic and thievery science plus baron honor (I chose these numbers because i remember our faerys achieving them or better by the end of our first war this age). The numbers are fairly strong espicaly for how quick the faerys can get thier.

Pop- 25.425 per acre (no homes)
Def- 133 dpa mod (12.425 EPA)
TPA- 14 mod (4 raw)
WPA- 10 mod (4 raw)
5 pessies an acre

As far as build gos I just figured 20% forts and 15% TD, no homes. Leaves plenty of room for the other buildings they need. I would conclude that even without super high science or honor that faerys are still incredibly strong.

[Evillone]

In comparison a halfer rouge running the same science, honor and build would need 16.66 EPA to get the same D as faerys and with same raw TPA & WPA would hit 16.2 mod tpa & 7 mod wpa but would only have 3.6 pessies per acre which is awfully low. Elfs will run into the same pessie crunch problems as they have the same defence eficeny.

[Evillone]

On a different note, I love that palem and crew tried somthing different but I think he's letting his involvement with TFC skew his analysis of faerys as a race. While an elf Mage or halfer thief may be able to op faerys they if they really put the effort in but both races are weaker in every other aspect and they are not nearly as flexible as the faery at that point either.

I has been trying to talk Elurin into running a all Faery war kingdom pretty much sense I joined silly cats. It could be highly efective under ideal circumstances (ie 25 hyper actives all showing up for waves, an issue by itself for the cats) but it also has some core problems that are hard to address. Mostly getting war, faerys fully pumped would cause enemy kingdoms to have a hard time waving you and would be risking a TON of ops hammering them in a retal war, so probably not gonna get too many wars from being waved. On the other hand, with no ops faerys would have to suicide in order to start hostilitys on thier own. Meaning you would have to sacrifice a couple provinces each war just to get into the war.

[Palem]

On a different note, I love that palem and crew tried somthing different but I think he's letting his involvement with TFC skew his analysis of faerys as a race. While an elf Mage or halfer thief may be able to op faerys they if they really put the effort in but both races are weaker in every other aspect and they are not nearly as flexible as the faery at that point either.

I has been trying to talk Elurin into running a all Faery war kingdom pretty much sense I joined silly cats. It could be highly efective under ideal circumstances (ie 25 hyper actives all showing up for waves, an issue by itself for the cats) but it also has some core problems that are hard to address. Mostly getting war, faerys fully pumped would cause enemy kingdoms to have a hard time waving you and would be risking a TON of ops hammering them in a retal war, so probably not gonna get too many wars from being waved. On the other hand, with no ops faerys would have to suicide in order to start hostilitys on thier own. Meaning you would have to sacrifice a couple provinces each war just to get into the war.

Faery hybrids can work. Faeries can only really muster up like 50 usable opa on base honor. So if you have a very active core you could use NM runs and such to open up provs to attacks with your faeries. Then of course that leaves your faeries open to attacks and such and it's not much of a "great" system, but it could work.

And in all seriousness, my opinion isn't skewed by TFC. If kds can allocate space for Faeries to sit there, suck up honor, and TM, then the appropriate counter to that is to run some Halflings, grow them up and kill their faeries. If someone would like to point out some clear flaw in that I'm happy to hear it, but I don't see how "Halfling isn't as flexable" nulls that. You gave the halfling a role and it's playing towards that roll. There's not much need for flexibility in this case...

[Evillone]

We considered hybrids Palem but being able to turtle was a large part of the strat i suggested and it greatly complicated things having a mix. I'm still tinkering with the idea so feel free to give me a shout on irc if u ever want to talk about it.

As to halfers being the "solution" to faerys it's just kind of absurd. Yes a halfer can run the numbers to op a faery, my examples earlier have the halfer with about 15% more tpa but 30% less wpa at the same D. It should be noted that the halfer in the example would actually be at 85.5% draft compared to the faeries 76.7% draft. So the halfers numbers would have to drop some where and the tpa would have to increase in order to ensure sustained ability to op faerys. You can't drop the D much otherwise the halfer is easily hit down so the WPA is what will suffer. So now you you have a highly specialized province that can't attack, cast spells or provide any sort of economy (note no other race requires such specialization to damage it) and can be easily counterd by the ocasonal smattering of ET when stealth gets high while MS brings D down into chainable range. I think that suggesting that halfer is the answer to faerys is comparable to suggesting that running 25 suiciding orcs is the answer. Both options would work to deal damage to faerys but both are strategically poor choices otherwise. Also no other race has a required singular way of dealing with them, why should faerys?

[Natsu]

We considered hybrids Palem but being able to turtle was a large part of the strat i suggested and it greatly complicated things having a mix. I'm still tinkering with the idea so feel free to give me a shout on irc if u ever want to talk about it.

As to halfers being the "solution" to faerys it's just kind of absurd. Yes a halfer can run the numbers to op a faery, my examples earlier have the halfer with about 15% more tpa but 30% less wpa at the same D. It should be noted that the halfer in the example would actually be at 85.5% draft compared to the faeries 76.7% draft. So the halfers numbers would have to drop some where and the tpa would have to increase in order to ensure sustained ability to op faerys. You can't drop the D much otherwise the halfer is easily hit down so the WPA is what will suffer. So now you you have a highly specialized province that can't attack, cast spells or provide any sort of economy (note no other race requires such specialization to damage it) and can be easily counterd by the ocasonal smattering of ET when stealth gets high while MS brings D down into chainable range. I think that suggesting that halfer is the answer to faerys is comparable to suggesting that running 25 suiciding orcs is the answer. Both options would work to deal damage to faerys but both are strategically poor choices otherwise. Also no other race has a required singular way of dealing with them, why should faerys?

Only 1 way to deal with a Faery?

Elf - 50% WPA, + 1 Mana Recovery / Tick in war, + 1 defence specialist strength that can mage a Faery if built right (Elf/Mystic or Elf/Sage depending on route you choose). Example: Lightning Strike destroys a large chunk of runes.
Halfling - +50% TPA, +1 stealth, -50% thief cost (Halfling/Rogue means you can assassinate wizards) or you can go Halfling/Sage to get a bit more balanced. Also, There are thievery ops you can do to steal resources.
Undead/Orc - If you have larger Orcs or Undead with extremely high MO (4 provinces lets say) you can hit a Faery province 4x and drop their acres making the province overpopulated a bit weakening them.

To me this is 3 ways to handle a Faery. Why is it that some can make use of these methods while others can't? It's more an issue on allowing a Faery to get stronger rather than them being OP. If the Faery provinces are weakened from early age onward then these provinces won't be so strong. As far as the top kingdoms are concerned it's the NAP agreements you set to ensure the safety of your banks that causes Faery provinces to be so strong as you don't hit each other. Start going through ages where you don't have NAP agreements and turn everything into fair game hitting Faery provinces and see how dominant they are. I can almost guarantee that they won't be so strong without NAP agreements, sciences, or honor.

[imhumannn]

about the honor system,

How about instead of having individual ranks in honor, all the honor in the kingdom is averaged and the averaged rank (e.g. lord / baron etc.) is spread out across every province? This would make it slightly balanced and more team oriented as Faeries will not be able to individually hold so much honor, but instead, contribute to the whole Kingdom's Pool, and same goes with Orcs / Undeads sacrificing their honor as heavy attackers so they get their fair share at the end of the day...?