Getting the Police under control

[John Snowstorm]

It's been a while since I read the study but I recall that the covered two full seasons at all ballparks of the entire division, and it was over 2 million pitches, giving a very good statistical sample.

I don't suggest a third party watchdog, as regulators are easily corruptible also, I recommend public access (through proper procedure) and down the road that arrests, searches and seizures would need mandatory recording for legitimacy and validity.

[Thunder TA]

Just keep reading the newspapers and studies others do.That seems to be what you base everything on.As for the IQ comment.Well lets just say im sure im above yours and have been for many years.

Just so you know tho.Here basically every car has a audio and video set up for all stops aswell as arrests.Things must be very different in Ireland.

[John Snowstorm]

Well you seem incapable of comprehending or following simple discourse so if your IQ is as high as you think you must have some other form of cognitive impairment.

You are trying to make it sound like basing your opinions of the world on science and reason is a bad thing, I am a scientist by trade, what do you expect me to use? If there is a better tool for determining the truth of what is going on, I have yet to see it.

Just so you know tho.Here basically every car has a audio and video set up for all stops aswell as arrests.Things must be very different in Ireland.

Yes, things are different here, and in many other places. I would consider that measure a good start and an essential pilot scheme towards wide angle micro lenses on the officers themselves.

[Hurlin]

If there is a better tool for determining the truth of what is going on, I have yet to see it.

Its called the streets man .......

[John Snowstorm]

Its called the streets man .......

Ah yes, the famous "gut feeling" and "hunch" ;D

So much better than evidence based analysis!

[Korp]

I think what he meant was that real life experince is far better than relying someone elses work not gut feeling nor hunch.

The Stanford Prison experiment is hardly and good base for anything at all consider theres been alot of critic against it in various areas. Plus the conclusions is hard to apply outside of the set area of the experiment, ie sure it works in a prison enviroment but. Then you havent provided a single source of fact that police are what you suggest which was your main key point.

[Korp]

From what I can see none of the experiments has people that actually holds power "irl" just students most of the time and I would say thats a big difference there already. Someone that knows the weight of power has a better understanding of that power than someone that dont have any power at all from the start and then are handed power.

Well for example policeofficers would probably to be scared to act certain ways if theire every step is documented, afraid to do their job cause they could get punished for it. Sometimes certain situations demands thinking out of the box.

Those are just reports of misconduct right not actually proven? (Just asking)

All I was saying maybe not to lean too heavily on a very criticized experiment.

[John Snowstorm]

The students as test subjects objection can be made for almost every study in psychology, you might as well toss them all out if that is your objection, however I can remember reading 2 different studies that vetted the use of students as a proxy measurement by comparing their responses to professionals, workers etc.

It is also worth noting that almost every experiment involving rats in mazes or rats performing tasks etc have had known critical methodological flaws for a very long time, there was a section about it in Richard Feynman's book "Surely you're Joking Mr. Feynman". However the results have still been useful and meaningful.

I am not particularly relying on that one experiment, there are scores of experiments that support my view, apart from the several I have listed. When the weight of the evidence all points in one direction, I am very much inclined to take that conclusion very seriously.

Those are just reports of misconduct right not actually proven? (Just asking)

reports, however the conclusion "However, this data suggests that a police officer is more likely than the average citizen to commit assault, sexual assault, and murder." factors in the solid data of lower conviction rates for police officers than joe public.

"most states currently have laws that prevent the examination of police misconduct information recorded by individual agencies themselves by the public and no other agency tracks police misconduct data in any publicly available way."

I see this as a massive problem in itself.

Well for example policeofficers would probably to be scared to act certain ways if theire every step is documented, afraid to do their job cause they could get punished for it. Sometimes certain situations demands thinking out of the box.

certain ways? outside of the box? by this you mean police misconduct. lol.

Sounds like you are trying to ask the "is it ok to torture someone who has information about a ticking bomb that will kill thousands" question.

In the US you're already supposed to be able to record the Police under the first amendment;

Glik v Cunniffe, 655 F.3d 78 (1st Cir. 2011)
"In summary, though not unqualified, a citizen's right to
film government officials, including law enforcement officers, in
the discharge of their duties in a public space is a basic, vital,
and well-established liberty safeguarded by the First Amendment."

If you can't deal with it then you're not cut out to be a cop.

[Korp]

certain ways? outside of the box? by this you mean police misconduct. lol.

I feel sorry for you if your world is just black and white.

Sounds like you are trying to ask the "is it ok to torture someone who has information about a ticking bomb that will kill thousands" question.

Not quite drastic but there is always situation isnt in accordance with the regulations.

In the US you're already supposed to be able to record the Police under the first amendment;

Imo there is a slight difference between someone filming them and they having a camera on them that cover their every move.

[John Snowstorm]

Not quite drastic but there is always situation isnt in accordance with the regulations.

At which point it should be down to a jury of your peers to figure out whether you did the right thing, it shouldn't be brushed under the carpet and hidden. Real life is not 24.

Imo there is a slight difference between someone filming them and they having a camera on them that cover their every move.

Yea, you don't have someone getting in your way and possibly making things more complicated w/ regards officer safety. The public recording the police is the public recording the police from a legal standpoint, no matter the number nor position or type of recording equipment.

At the end of the day they are public servants and the public has a cast iron right to monitor and record their actions in the line of duty, if the tax payer through their elected officials wants to mount a wide angle micro lens or two on the uniform or mandate video recordings to legitimise arrests etc, I think that's perfectly within the both the bounds of reason and the law in both UK and US. In Ireland we may have some difficulty due to some archaic laws we have regarding audio recording in public which I am only vaguely familiar with.

[goodz]

There is going to be footage of that from the car anyway. It has a camera that would be on during the arrest. A lot of police work is already on camera as a result. It would cost a ton to monitor police behaviour, but a good system should have a way to complain about an arrest, as technology gets better I wouldn't be surprised if police officers had a small camera on their uniform.

If you complained about treatment at specific time or on a specific arrest and it could easily be looked up by an impartial person that would be great, although I believe the police officer should be given the benefit of the doubt unless he is extremely out of line as it is a high stress job often in a dangerous environment.

The increased cost of a system like this would be very high I believe. People complain all the time and I think the system would get clogged with tons of stupid complaints.

[John Snowstorm]

unless there truly is a widespread epidemic of police misconduct you're going to save a lot of money on the court cases that will be avoided from the discovery stage.

illegitimate claims will be dealt with much faster than they currently are and I should think there will be less of these given how easily their veracity will be proven one way or the other.

if the cost to the tax payer goes up because of *legitimate* claims, then that is a price well worth paying and indeed is the entire point of the system.

[Bishop]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...319721336.html

[John Snowstorm]

Limerick is a fun place. :P

[octobrev]

Around here, the police on the streets are the final evolution of the dumb kids in class. Why we elect them to carry guns around is beyond me. Any cop with a shred of intelligence is a detective or doing something office side because that's where the money is to pay for their expensive educations since its not free here like would be in a developed nation. Furthermore, these over-empowered adult children continuously overstep their bounds of "Protect and Serve" and are strongly protected by the union. The police are less a service, and more an enemy. It's becoming increasingly necessary to carry a gun just defend yourself.