Getting the Police under control

[Thunder TA]

Your really not worth even replying to as you have no idea what your talking about but i got to make a few points showing that as its to obvious

1. its actually easier to get drugs on the streets, where do you think the ones that get into the prisons come from to begin with.
2.Since your confused again ,You might want to realize prison guards and police are actually not the same thing .I know in a simple mind they might be seen as such but in actuality they are not even close. You might want to do alittle research on training and duties.
3.Gangs wouldnt need guns if there was no police ? Thats probably the dumbest statement you have actually made. You dont realize most drug killings are drug deals gone bad. They kill each other for money and drugs almost daily along with anyone else they see might feed their habit. Are you really that goofy or just high ?
4.We put people in jail and prisons. Once again your confused and dont understand how it works.Judges and the prisons release the idiots we try to get off the streets.Thats about all i agree with you. They should be left there not released.

You mostly racist views are that of either a drug user,a kid or someone whos daddy is in jail.None of the 3 hold much knowledge of how the legal system really works as you have so easily proved.


As far as Chris Donor,If what he says was going on then he should have been commended for standing up against it,but he should have went outside the department and used the whistle blower act when they turned against him. Instead with what hes done hes no better then them and now actually worse.

[thephatman]

#1 Wrong, on the streets some of the people you ask will not have or know about drugs. Ask anyone in prison where to get a hit and he can tell you.

#2 You mistook me, I don't just think cops are obsolete, its the whole criminal "justice" system, from judges to prosecutors to Prison guards, parole officers and patrol duty cops. You fail to preform the jobs you have been given to an acceptable level of competence. In fact i think it has gotten to the point that law enforcement only exacerbates civil unrest/criminal behavior. You no longer provide justice, only violent and brutal punishment. Your prisons are training grounds for the criminal elite. You are simply obsolete and no longer serve a useful purpose. Like the Pony Express there is just nothing for you do to anymore, try as you might to make up problems to "fix" like the war on drugs, you only make the situation more violent / profitable for the criminals. Police no longer see the citizens as innocents in need of protection, you consider citizen to be enemy combatants. If you lock up the wrong man, its his fault for matching the description of the assailant. If a citizen is wounded you let him bleed, "that's a paramedics job", besides you will get more paid court time for a murder compared with assault, its in the interest of your pay scale to be heartless. Prosecutors are more concerned with their win ratings than convicting the guilty.

#3 The only reason drugs are expensive and warrant such great violence to protect is that they are illegal. If drugs were legal their value would plummet. It would quickly reach the tipping point where they no longer provide their distributors with the obscene profits they need to convince ppl to kill/die protecting them. It would become unprofitable to engage in urban warfare, the smart gangs would likely incorporate and slow become legitimate businessmen much like the sellers of alcohol and tobacco. Before you **** a brick, this is exactly what happened after the prohibition of alcohol.

#4 In america the police no longer need to comply with the basic human rights promised by the Constitution. There is a "Thin blue line" of purgery, evidence tampering, and corrupt official decision making that protects you from being held against the laws you hold up. Watch that you tube, it contains a documentary of police misconduct the likes of which you will find hard to ignore or dismiss. And that is simply what we know about, no doubt the tip of the iceberg. They answer to thier superiors, and thier superiors answer to the state gov't and Washington. Police forces have no connection to the community, they drive around and see everyone as a possible suspect/ enemy combatant.

*Edit* Solution
We should go back to a local sheriff system, each voting district should elect a Sheriff, it should be up to him to appoint deputies as needed. He should be funded locally so that he does not report to any higher authority besides the voters in his district. Perhaps a local sales tax decided on by the voters. Sheriff should be allowed to appoint his deputies and organize his police force in what ever way seems best to solve to problems of his individual area. If he does a bad job, vote him out. With out having to answer to mayors, Governor etc, for their funding they will no longer be preoccupied with the control of crime statistics which encourages police corruption through under-reporting / statistical manipulations. Once again the cops would walk a beat, they would know the names of the people in their area and they would be able to count on them for information and support because of the trust that would form over time. The Police are here to protect the citizenry, not make quotas of arrests decided on by statistics compiled in a boardroom of greedy self interested bureaucrats.
*edit* Dornor

I'm all for cops killing cops, to me it is no different than soldier killing soldier. He feels betrayed by a corrupt system good for him if he wants to blow away some bad cops. So far the average citizen has more to fear from the police trying to capture him than Dornor himself. 2 cops shot up a truck +30 times with women and children b4 even identifying it as the correct vehicle or whether it was driven by a male matching Dornor's description. What do you think their punishment will be? I think they should be charged Attempted murder or at least assault with a deadly weapon. According to thier supervisor they failed to follow any proper procedures, but do you know what will happen to this deadly criminals? Suspension with out pay. If I was a sick twisted ****er, I would become a cop, shoot up a family and walk. Sounds like a good deal to me. They didn't even do polygraphs on police until 2000, imagine how many serial rapists, murders, violet beaters are in the police force.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...wyer-says?lite

As far as the Whistle Blower act is concerned i think Dornor would have been a fool to put his faith in it. If you havn't been paying attention to the news recently, whistle blowers have been redefined as enemy spies and are being tried under the espionage act. Also the FED reserves the right to blow up, detain indefinably with out trial or notice to family any person, citizen or not, in any country, USA or not, for any reason they see fit, not subject to review by any court of law. Some times I wonder if I fell asleep and woke up in 1930 Germany.

*edit* I figured out what this sentence meant and responded, though i had to read it a couple times.
"You mostly racist views are that of either a drug user,a kid or someone whos daddy is in jail.None of the 3 hold much knowledge of how the legal system really works as you have so easily proved."

Yeah, im 26, my father is an Engineer with no criminal record. I have no criminal record outside of traffic violations for speeding etc. I do smoke weed recreationally and firmly believe it is my right to do so under the constitution's 1st, 8ths and 9ths amendments. Not only did 1/2 the founding fathers smoke it and would not have allowed it or any other substance to be banned. It is cruel and unusual to ban a harmless drug that has both medical and economic benefits to society while at the same time legalizing alcohol which is proven to lead to reckless and violent behavior as well as destruction of the brain and liver. I am a libertarian so i would not support banning any substance for any reasons however i think the hypocrisy of the states decision as to where to draw the line is humorous and reveals their ingenuous motives.
As im sure you did not know Weed was outlawed in the 1930s because it threaten the southern cotton market b.c the textiles produced from hemp require less soil/water/time and were about 5x as long lasting / tensile strength of their cotton counterparts. However the public was sold a different line about how weed makes white women date interracial. Enter the classic film "Reefer Madness"
Also i have a BS in History and probably more knowledge of the law than the average cop. At least that has been my experience in speaking with them. I find it laughable that you would make a character attack at this point. Regardless of whether I am a deranged heroin adict or not is irrelevant. It is not my or your personal character but rather the merits of the points we bring up on this issue that are important here. I think my points have been well supported in fact and i think you have mostly relied on hyperbole and ad hominem. Feel free to look up what that means.

[thephatman]

No idea how i missed seeing this until now.

Small acts do not count as "corruption" if they are specifically allowed to do them, such as cops not having to wear a seatbelt. In the UK and Ireland police (and taxi drivers) are exempt from seatbelt laws, for example.

Your statement that "most cops are corrupt" is unfounded, unproven and balls.

Dear Mr Bishop,
I am uncertain if you are a US citizen or not. Or how familiar you are with our legal system. I do not mean to project my statements to police forces outside the united states as i do know no enough about them to comment competently. But within the US it has become a common practice for law enforcement officers to violate the rights granted to us citizen through the Constitution. Some of this is due to ignorance and poor training however some cops are just smart and know that they can get away with anything so long as it cannot be proven in court they misbehaved. Much like military and congressmen the Police are required to swear to an oath before they begin duty.

On my honor,
I will never betray my badge,
my integrity, my character,
or the public trust.
I will always have
the courage to hold myself
and others accountable for our actions.
I will always uphold the constitution
my community and the agency I serve.

The establishment of check points whereby random searches are carried out, the invasion and seizure of private property with out warrant are all expressly forbidden by the constitution. However they have become a common practice of law enforcement. Now the police here operate UAV drones to monitor us from the sky, yet another clear invasion of privacy in direct violation of their oath.

Not only do law enforcement officers defy their oath of office but they routinely become excessively abusive in situations that are clearly orderly and under control. These officers are not disciplined to a sufficient degree. Often they are not punished at all since often it comes down to the word of a cop vrs a "suspect". There is also a brotherhood, or "thin blue line" that forces officers to commit perjury, tamper with evidence to avoid being ostracized by the "brotherhood". Which could be devastating not only to your day to day life as an officer but to your career as well.

I have come to this opinion after many years of being a relative to police, seeing how they act in real life, and researching the topic online. I don't want to admit too much, but I know for a fact that the police in my town sell hard drugs. I think the pattern of corrupt behavior is clear and easily proved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTQA...e=results_main
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zATOxkWK4E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUUuLeauWoU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVmGW...BmPB0xsP-HVhEe
http://ktla.com/2013/02/07/read-chri...led-manifesto/

[Bishop]

"But within the US it have become a common practice for law enforcement officers to violate the rights granted to us citizen through the Constitution."

That's quite an assertive blanket statement to make though. In fact, it would be next to impossible to prove that it is true.

[thephatman]

"But within the US it have become a common practice for law enforcement officers to violate the rights granted to us citizen through the Constitution."

That's quite an assertive blanket statement to make though. In fact, it would be next to impossible to prove that it is true.

Very easy to support, there are a 3 steps

#1, they swore to uphold constitution in their oath.
#2, Police in every state set up road blocks and conduct other mass searches with out warrants or probable cause
#3, the 4th amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

Next please.

[Bishop]

That's not evidence, or an actual argument.

[thephatman]

That's not evidence, or an actual argument.

Dito?

Im not sure what you are looking for. Police and federal check points are extremely common. At the very moment there are no doubt dozens set up within the state of Arizona alone. I think it would be extremely difficult for you to find a US citizen who has not been through one of these check points who wouldn't corroborate the essence of my statements here. Often you will be asked to leave your car and submit to a search, if you say no the search is conducted regardless and you are placed under arrest. If you resist arrest you will most likely be beaten. Where is the judge signing a warrant with my name and the description of my car. Where is due process.

Here is a pastor trying to cross the yuma desert some 5 years past when these type check points were new.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJF5cUWXA_A

I would like to hear an argument in the positive for your side of this issue. So far all i have heard from you is the dismissal of my arguments and evidence with out any of your own.
*
Edit
*
I am willing to accept that most of the burden of proof is on my side because i have made the "inflammatory statements" However it is not enough for you to off handily dismiss my statements with out something to prove them as "false". Saying that's not an argument doesn't make it so, I agree my thesis was unclear taken from that paragraph alone. However i think we both know my thesis is this "the police break their oath to uphold the Constitution and protect the community". In conclusion they are corrupt.

[Bishop]

I can easily dismiss your comments as you havent any proof posted. Until such time as you show documented evidence to support your statement that "within the US it have become a common practice for law enforcement officers to violate the rights granted to us citizen through the Constitution" you just come across as a crank. Surely it is in your interests to avoid this negative position.

[thephatman]

I have submitted a considerable amount of evidence. I could easily produce more but I see no reason to as you have either not looked at it or chose not to address it directly. Perhaps you should make a point besides "thephatman is wrong b.c i am bishop". So far that's all you have managed to say. Within those Links i have posted you will find security footage, witness testimony, news broadcasts etc, all confirming my statements. Mr Bishop your still standing on thin air. Maybe its time you find some footing and say something worth addressing. At this point I could train a parrot to hold up you end of the argument, Cwaaak, " no evidence" cwaaak

[Bishop]

Great argument, you have swayed me.

[thephatman]

That's what i thought, nothing to say besides insults and baseless denial. Maybe next time bring half a clue and a point. They might help. Your denial would work better if you banned me from your forums for saying something you didn't like.

[Bishop]

I didn't like your last post. In 24 hours you can attempt to post without attacking people.

[Priest of H.I.M. Achaeos]

The only way to reduce police corruption is for the corrupt officers to end up dead. Even then then drive to have power over others will still compell such men to seek out work as an officer. So the publice wil have to be vigilant about this vigilante justice against bad cops. cameras are catching these idiots everyday when they even know they are on Camera. So I doubt Cameras will stop it from happening either. The only way is to execute them in the streets. Then they cant get away using their system of cover-up-save-the department-face and legal loopholes. They are just gone. Hope it starts in Delaware County Oklahoma where you are more likely to get raped by a cop than anyone else.

[thephatman]

vBulletin Message
You have been banned for the following reason:
Malicious Flaming/Personal Attacks

Date the ban will be lifted: 12-02-2013, 07:00


bwahahahah, too rich. Sorry for hurting your feelings Bishop.
I will be sure to take greater care in choosing my words in the future.
However id like to ask you to do the same. PLease refrain from calling
me a crack pot unless you intend to prove it. Seems fair to me we both
follow the same rules. I can't ban you for being insulting but i think
it would set a good example for everyone if you'd practice what you preach.

[Bishop]

Until such time as you show documented evidence to support your statement that "within the US it have become a common practice for law enforcement officers to violate the rights granted to us citizen through the Constitution" you just come across as a crank.

^^ difference.