Allanon was in war that entire period, and the other KD you guys wanted help with I had a NAP with (which you were fully informed of prior to me joining). I'm surprised you want to bring this up as you ended up getting farmed while I won. ;)Originally Posted by prot
Proteus you should be more interested in this, considering how a new abs policy of 'hitting into a hostile is fine as long as you either call dibs or have been called names' surely counts towards rage too. HoH should be fine though, one of the upsides to being the bastard son of absalom :P
Last edited by ZodZilla; 22-07-2012 at 20:38.
Simians deserves to be wiped out by EoA, and I hope Anri takes a brutal razekilling.
HoH has my full support to destroy Simians in this war.
SHP and prot, aren't you guys busy doing a 3v1 on some independent kd right now? Your guys hypocrisy is amazing.
Trying to run when you know a kingdom is in the process of initiating a hostile on you has always been a risky proposition. Sometimes you can "save yourself" by waving another kingdom really quick when you see another kingdom has already sent a dragon on your lands, hit your cow, and tagged that they are fighting you. Sometimes waving another kingdom after you get a dragon and hits from a different kingdom doesn't work.
The most "honorable" thing to do is to fight the kingdom that has sent the dragon at you and started hits on you and told you they want to fight you. To not do that and instead try and wave a different kingdom puts everyone in an awkward spot. Waving a different kd quickly to dodge the first kingdom is lame. Then the first kingdom is lame if they continue their fight after you made the move to dodge. Then if the kingdom you waved to dodge fights back they also could be considered lame.
I know prot's kingdoms in the past have followed through on waves when the kd they started waving quickly hit another kingdom to hostile. I'm not quite sure about SHP's history, but most kingdoms have done this since dodging an in progress hostile has always been lame (even though it's something many kingdoms have tried with mixed results both in Abs and out of Abs over the ages.) I do know that SHP's kd this age has raze waved into an active war in support of their allies.
awww asf ur cute...
i dont see how attacking some retard peon though proves your point. i just wanna know what dibbs is and no one will tell me.
You brought up BF ;) not me
I got 2v1'd so yea, typical I'd get farmed. There was no other big guys. Dont give yourself too much credit for 2v1ing me with Tempers
Simians didn't 'wave another KD really quick to avoid hostile' - the KD waved (HoH) had been served notice and the wave was planned. Sanc has even stated that they did not intend to hit Simians into hostile while they where still in fort so there was no hostile to dodge. Given the nature of the conflict the left hand knew what the right hand was doing, so it's a clear 2 vs 1 powerplay which included waving into a hostile.
I didn't say dibbs and imo it's the wrong term to use. Dibbs is what you try to call to get first claim to something. If Sanc and HoH both were fighting among themselves about who got to wave Simians first then Sanc could have theoretically "called dibbs" on Simians over HoH. In this case though, it appears that Sanc wanted to fight Simians, but Simians wanted to fight HoH. I don't feel "dibbs" is a correct term to use in such a situation.
Sanc did send a dragon to ravage Simians lands, hit their cow, and notified them that they wanted to fight them and would full wave as soon as Simians left Fortified. This situation would be a bit like last age when Rage notified Inso to slow their pump when Rage really wanted to Fight BIO again. Inso decided that since Rage slowed them and made them train up, they'd block for BIO, thus letting BIO be relatively untrained and in Fortified stance. Rage initiated hits immediately on BIO, but inso also initiated hits immediately on Rage. When that happened, Rage told BIO that they would not hit them further and would instead fight the kingdom waving them (Inso.) Rage then fought and warred inso.
Indeed I did bring it up originally. You were already kaput before tempers had enough army to join in, not to mention the 2 days it took to convince him. Utopia is more than just in-game. The fact I socially converted someone from your own alliance, to leave your alliance and join my side serves more credit. But enough thread-jacking, getting too far off topic.
Simians notified Sanc and even in this very thread called them chickens. Sanc sent a dragon and hit their cow and tagged that they were fighting Simians before Simians did anything to HOH. Of course Simians didn't want to fight Sanc since Sanc would have completely farmed Simians cow (one of the two sanc cows had just hit simians lone cow and was unbreakable back.) Simians decided they couldn't fight Sanc so they decided they better wave HOH (which was probably the kingdom they wanted all along, but anyone here can read this thread and see Simians statements about fighting Sanc and calling them out...)
Why are you trying to derail the thread subject? Fact is Sanctuary did exactly what I posted earlier, which is a pretty much identical situation.
Sanc's in the wrong here, no discussion possible about that. Sanc sent a dragon and a single hit, then stagnated. That's not a hostile.
Simians then waves HoH, which gave a hostility.
Sanctuary wasn't quick enough to respond and then waved into an active hostile. Thats lame. At least we had the dignity to halt our wave when Sanctuary did that.
Again, Sanctuary is wrong here. We can discuss other matters once you'll agree to that point.
ps. I bet HoH will also hit Simians. Absalom will claim it's fully legit because:
1) Sanc sent a dragon which they'll claim to be a hostility (despite in previous ages having claimed it is not!)
2) Sanc sent a single hit on a cow which they'll claim to be a hostility (despite in previous ages cow hits are not in fact a hostility, they're just random hits)
3) Simians made the choice to wave away from the above 2
If I was HoH though, I would wave Sanctuary for stealing their target
I wonder how many CF's are going to be broken next age. Following this trend, CF's are no longer relevant, neither are hostiles or wars.
HoH was also clearly fine with fighting Simians as well, so 'calling dibbs' is pretty accurate imo. Simians giving out multiple notices does give those KD's priority to 'choose' which KD hostiles Simians. But if they do not make the first move (hitting to hostile), then Simians has full right to open up a hostile and it should be respected, especially since Sanc knows HoH will be bringing it to war.
There's no real right answer here, as its hard not to say a bank hit constitues a hostile since without that then 3 kingdoms could all simutaneously "random" another bank. At the same time it seems silly to wave another kingdom that has given a button to the other. That's generally why these days at the top you have to simply fight one kingdom at a time.
Whomever has the most allies at the time time and time again will show that the definition of hostile will change situation to situation based on however suits the person best.
While in abs I specifically remember dorje claiming "no button = no hostile" in abs council to justify waving into a kingdom who had exchanged a few hits but hadn't gotten to full hostile.
The introduction of fortified has made it even trickier to fully initiate hostiles.
However I found out a few ages ago that wasn't the definition used recently, and simians is finding that out now.
Prot, was it also "wrong" when your kingdom in the past followed through on waves they had initiated despite the target kingdom quickly waving someone else in hopes of avoiding fighting you?
again, this wave wasn't 'reactionary'... it was planned, and into a larger fully pumped KD. The issue is that Sanc supposedly declared their intention to wave Simians (i.e. calling dibbs), and that apparently now gives the right to do so regardless of hostile/war with third party.
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