Questiion

[Veldoza]

There is a big argument going on in my kingdom about dungeons and "rainbow" build strats. Are these bad things? My moderate amount of research and reading the guide fairly extensively tells me that build strats are not always better with only 5-7 types of buildings. Also, is it better to just run homes rather than dungeons? Does the pop bonus (65ish% trained into off specs let's say) really out weigh having dungeons? Also are prisoners worth any NW? And let's say I attack someone, killed 500, captured 500. If I didn't have dungeons, would I have killed 1000?

This is my Avian cleric build strat

17 tg
9 barracks
9 homes
9 farms
13 banks
11 arm
7 hosp
11 guild
6 towers
5 wt
3 dun

However others argue that this would be better.

20% Homes
10% Farms
20% Training grounds
20% Barracks
15% Watchtowers
10% Guilds
5% Towers

Would love some opinions. Thanks guys.

[Bishop]

If your build %s are too low they have little effect and disappear in war. The second build is more correct, but it lacks economy buildings. I wouldn't waste 20% land in homes. Dungeons do not increase kills.

[Veldoza]

why would they disappear in war? So dungeons are not worth it? The way attack times would be calculated for me.. -30% for avian (let's say 13 hours) 13*.7= 9.1 and then the 9.1*.8783 (cause of the 9% barracks =-12.29% attack time) = 7.9925 hours per attack (trad march of course) so rounded up to 8 hour attack time. Is that correct?

[nooblet]

If you build anything, you need to ask yourself whether those buildings are worth it. Some buildings can be built in small numbers and be effective, while others require higher % to be useful. As a general rule, buildings that reduce something benefit from higher % and mean little at lower %. Buildings that raise something, like training grounds, forts, banks, don't need to be built at high % to be useful, though they can be. Guardstations and Watchtowers are examples of buildings that are nearly worthless at small %, and barracks and armories can be worthless at small % as well. Finally there are some buildings that don't work well together, like thief dens and watchtowers. (Forts and GS seem like this, but if you know a chain is incoming then they work very well together, making yourself harder to hit and reducing gains when people do attack...)

With all of that said, what are you trying to accomplish with your build? I think the 5% in watchtowers is too little to justify having them at all, so you should pull from homes, towers, farms (with science), and hospitals to make sure they're at a level where they're blocking a significant number of ops. It should be at least 8-9%, and probably closer to 15%. You could easily eliminate hospitals, since cleric will cover losses well enough.

What you do with incoming acres is crucial, so don't stick to a rainbow build during war. Having a rainbow-like build at the start of war is fine, but if you need heavy gs, build heavy gs, and if you need heavy rax, build heavy rax. The buildings with small % that you don't need can fade over time.

Also dungeons are practically a must-have for attackers. They're too useful to not use, and why rob yourself of free offense? Homes are never a priority building for heavy attackers.

Edit: I should also add that small % of buildings will be destroyed when you are hit, more often that buildings with large %. If you get chained, and have 20% of one building and 5% of another, the building with 5% will be nearly gone when you've lost ~70% of your land, moreso than the 4:1 ratio would indiciate.

With this in mind, it's still useful to build dungeons, since if you're not hit or targetted with tornado/arson they're going to remain present. If you get chained, that 3% land is a small investment to lose compared to the advantage if you're not attacked.

Finally, micromanaging % ratios isn't a big deal. During war and even out of war, you can bring in acres fast. You should adjust your building strategies in war knowing that 10-20% of your lands will be either barren or under construction, more if you are heavily hit.

[Veldoza]

I see your point, thanks for the info. Was my calculation for attack time correct? Do all percentages stack like that? So inspire army/armories combo mean -x%=Y-inspire army=Z? Yeah, the hospitals are the ones who I didn't really love. Also I plan to reduce farms to as low as 6% once my sci starts kicking in.

[nooblet]

BE is variable, averaging around 80-85% at the start of war, and incoming land will reduce your barracks%. That should be considered when trying to make sure you hit 8 hour attack times. Therefore you should build something like 15% barracks at war start, and maintain 10-15% throughout the war - using rushbuild to make sure that your barracks arrive in time for your next attack, or slowbuild if planning for two hits ahead. Of course you don't need to be hitting every 8 hours exactly, so you'll probably want to overbuild to account for things that can disrupt your attacking schedule, and of course take steps to improve your BE to get more utility out of % buildings.

[Lebanon]

id say 2% dungeons max, anything more could potentially be overkill (not being able to fill them up)

for the barracks, if you wanna do 8 hour attack time, be safe and get 15%, what if u get a gold dragon, tornado etc..
for the WT, get something like at least 12% if youre not going to be a hybrid.
youre a cleric, dont need hosp
dont need that much farms, cast fertile lands and get some food sci

potential build strat:
10 homes
25 tg
15 barracks
15 GS
7 farms
9 guild
5 towers
12 wt
2 dun

[Veldoza]

Still want to know if the percentages stack or if they equal out. Examples:

I am paying 1000 gc per hour for my military wages.

I have -20% from armories. (assume 100%BE)

I cast Inspire Army (-15% wages)

Which is the answer?

A: 1000*.8= 800*.85= 680 GC per hour

B: 1000*.65= 650 GC per hour

Attack time and all other bonuses work the same right?

Or let's get into a 4 level issue.

I'm merchant so my pers bonus is +30%, I have the plague: -15% wages, I have +20% income from banks (assume 100%BE) and I have +10% income from sci.

Does all this break down to +45% income or does it come out to:

Daily income is 1000 (for simplistic sake) 1000*1.3=1300*1.2=1560*1.1=1716*.85=1458 or do we go in a different order?

[nooblet]

Income mods multiply, and Merchant ignores the income penalty for Plague. For merchant with 20% bonus from banks and no science, you'd have 1.3*1.2 = 1.56, or 56% more income. Wages and income are two seperate things, and wage mods also multiply, so the first of those is correct.

Attack time mods all multiply.

The only mods that add to my knowledge are some Military Effectiveness mods - i.e., the effect of training grounds, honor and generals add to your OME, rather than multiply. Warrior and Monarch bonus multiply offense after all other mods have been applied, as do Fanaticism and Minor Protection iirc.

[Lestat]

Both are gross