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Thread: Attack Gains in War (and RPNW)

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    Attack Gains in War (and RPNW)

    I have a solid understanding of how Attack Gains are calculated out of war. The formulae are explained nicely in the Utopia Guide. However, I'm trying to find some numbers to work with for calculating gains in war, with respect to relative province networth (rpnw).

    Base gains OOW are 12%.

    In addition to other specific modifiers (sci, race, GS, relations), that number is modified by the Province Networth Factor. If the target province's networth is within +/- 10% of the attacking province (rpnw of 0.9-1.1), the gains modifier is 1 (full gains). Below 0.9 and above 1.1, there is a linear falloff of the modifier down to an rpnw of 0.57 or up to 1.6, after which no land is gained.

    Here's the chart from the guide:
    Code:
     Relative Province Networth (rpnw) = Targets Networth / Self Networth
     
     Province Networth Factor = DEPEND ( rpnw ) :
                                                   rpnw < 0.567   = 0
                                           0.567 < rpnw < 0.9     = 3 * rpnw - 1.7
                                           0.9   < rpnw < 1.1     = 1
                                           1.1   < rpnw < 1.6     = -2 * rpnw + 3.2
                                                   rpnw > 1.6     = 0

    So I want to know how these numbers change in war. I know that there is a minimum gain of (I think) 3%, but the difference between war and OOW is more than that. Is there another tier added? Is the falloff slower? Is the middle (1.0) range bigger, say +/- 20%?

    *I also know that GBP is capped at 20%, and relative *KD* NW is irrelevant. It's the precise changes to the chart above that I'm really looking for.

    I have been working on a spreadsheet that cannot move forward without this information, so I'd really appreciate your assistance!

    Thanks.
    Last edited by feedyourhead187; 23-08-2012 at 04:12.

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    GBP is capped at 20% in war.
    I think relative kd nw is totally ignored in war.


    There might be some other things, but yea gains to change a bit once you're in war.

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    Thanks Palem. I've taken those into account already. I just added a line to the OP to clarify:

    "I also know that GBP is capped at 20%, and relative *KD* NW is irrelevant. It's the precise changes to the chart above that I'm really looking for."

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    I am also entertaining the possibility that half of my KD is wrong (the half that has weighed in on this matter), and that those numbers DO NOT change during war, and that all of the differences in war gains are a result of the +10% gains bonus, reduced GBP, and the 3% min gains.

    My observations suggest there is something else going on, but I could be wrong and I haven't collected comprehensive data, which would give me a lot more information.

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    Sir Postalot Ordray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feedyourhead187 View Post
    I am also entertaining the possibility that half of my KD is wrong (the half that has weighed in on this matter), and that those numbers DO NOT change during war, and that all of the differences in war gains are a result of the +10% gains bonus, reduced GBP, and the 3% min gains.

    My observations suggest there is something else going on, but I could be wrong and I haven't collected comprehensive data, which would give me a lot more information.
    Is there still a 10% bonus for gains in war? I thought that that was removed with the explore pool gains, but maybe that was just shifted back to province acres instead. Maybe Bishop can clarify?
    Retired at one time but no longer retired.

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    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    News to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    News to me.
    Thanks...?

    I've been calculating gains based on the formula from the Guide/Wiki, and the hits within +/- 10% NW range are about 10% higher in war than they should be, so I thought maybe it was still doing that.

    Also, the guide says this: "Honor gains and land gains are higher in war than out of war."

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    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    We don't give 10% more acres in war.
    Support email: utopiasupport@utopia-game.com <- please use this and don't just PM me| Account Deleted/Inactive | Utopia Facebook Page | #tactics <-- click to join IRC|
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    the 3% min gain is on land attacks. mine gains for learns are 1%. never really tested massacre mins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    We don't give 10% more acres in war.
    Ok, thanks for confirming that.

    But you can't tell me how rpnw mechanics change in war?

  11. #11
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    no idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by feedyourhead187 View Post
    Ok, thanks for confirming that.

    But you can't tell me how rpnw mechanics change in war?
    I dont have the data set to back it up as i never really needed it/cared to gather it, but anecdotal evidence of just playing this game would lead me think that in war

    Gains = Target Resource * Attack Type * PNF * KNF * GBP * GS * Race * Stance * Relations * Science * Target Stance

    Relations factor => 1 Due to removal of explore pool,

    Target Stance & Stance => 1

    GBP => GBP= Max (GBP,0.8)

    PNF*KNF=NWVariable=> NWVariable= Max (PNF*KNF,min gains)

    Only had a couple of wars where KNF would come into play but i'd say its still there just not very noticeable due to the nature of war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    I dont have the data set to back it up as i never really needed it/cared to gather it, but anecdotal evidence of just playing this game would lead me think that in war

    Gains = Target Resource * Attack Type * PNF * KNF * GBP * GS * Race * Stance * Relations * Science * Target Stance

    Relations factor => 1 Due to removal of explore pool,

    Target Stance & Stance => 1

    GBP => GBP= Max (GBP,0.8)

    PNF*KNF=NWVariable=> NWVariable= Max (PNF*KNF,min gains)

    Only had a couple of wars where KNF would come into play but i'd say its still there just not very noticeable due to the nature of war.
    Yes, all of that makes sense. All I'm trying to find out is how the PNF changes in war.

    Looks like I'm going to have to do some serious data collection and analysis if I want my answer...?

    Many of the veterans in my KD seem to think that the effective RPNW for max gains (for PNF of 1) changes from +/- 10% to +/- 20%. Others think that it's the next level down that changes. That makes more sense to me, such that, the falloff is slower (and stops at PNF of 0.03).

    The crux of all of this is that I'm trying to predict gains for multiple provinces (on the same target) before an attack. Can't do that without knowing how PNF falls off between 1.0 and 0.03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    no idea.
    Wow, that's so helpful, thanks.

    Aren't you supposed to know this stuff?

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    Quote Originally Posted by feedyourhead187 View Post
    The crux of all of this is that I'm trying to predict gains for multiple provinces (on the same target) before an attack. Can't do that without knowing how PNF falls off between 1.0 and 0.03.
    Sry if i didnt make that clear based on experience i dont think the PNF variable changes during war

    ie use
    0.567 < rpnw < 0.9 = 3 * rpnw - 1.
    0.9 < rpnw < 1.1 = 1
    as an indicator of gains, just if PNF * KNF< 0.03 replace that multiplier with 0.03

    I do know however GS modify down the minimum gains someone can get on you during war, so thats worth knowing.
    Forces from XX,XX came through and ravaged our lands! They captured 3 acres! We lost 5 Trolls and 1 Ogre in this battle.

    Was at 189 acres acres minimum gains should b 5-6 acres, i had about 40% GS so that would lower the minimum gains.

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