Rage vs Psych Ward and bio too?

[flogger]

The point of defining hostiles is to prevent a kingdom from getting doubled. Sanc was in no way shape or form getting doubled, so whether or not 1 hit constitutes a hostile or not in this case doesn't matter.

If you want to really lock up a hostile, you make 8 hits. If you aren't prepared to do that then your answer isn't to just hit someone anyways if they hit someone else.

The game defines what a hostile is for us. We've added the cow hit being included in a hostile to prevent 2 cows from hitting 1 cow in commonly accepted practice, that's to protect one cow from being doubled up on. That was not the case here.

You can't know that someone may dodge you, balk on locking up a hostile, then wave when someone goes to dodge you.

[John Snowstorm]

You do a bank hit on my bank and send me a dragon and I'd be pretty certain you were fighting me. Why else would you do that stuff - for fun?

Just face it, Simians wanted to run away from Sanctuary and Sanctuary did not want to let them do that. I've just said the same thing you did, only from the other side :)

well according to rage in the past dragons/ops mean nothing A bank hit that goes unretalled from fort means nothing too.

jsut because simians was trying to dodge a wave from sanctuary doesn't give you the right to double hostile them.

how many times does it have to be said; even if everything you say is accurate and true, that's still not an excuse to wave into active hostile.

Your argument STILL boils down to sanc saying 'we wanted to wave them so we did'

Just face it, Simians wanted to run away from Sanctuary and Sanctuary did not want to let them do that.

Just face it, Rage wanted to run away from BiO and BiO did not want to let them do that.

how is it you think this is a good argument? waving into active hostile is still waving into active hostile regardless.

[sexual harassment panda]

from now on can we refer to this practice as a "notice tarriff" and then be on with our day?

[Meeni]

TheRock,

took me all of page 2 in that Simians vs Abs thread to find a relevant comment from leadership regarding forced training and consequences involved:

Rage training up will cost something on the order of 1 billion gold. Ghettocats seems to be getting gangbanged over stealing gold in the tens of millions, Simians seems to believe they will get away scot free when they are costing their opponents in the billions.

[baka]

7 hits is not a wave.

Stop your posturing.

Sucks having a taste of your own medicine huh?

[TheRock]

well according to rage in the past dragons/ops mean nothing A bank hit that goes unretalled from fort means nothing too.

jsut because simians was trying to dodge a wave from sanctuary doesn't give you the right to double hostile them.

how many times does it have to be said; even if everything you say is accurate and true, that's still not an excuse to wave into active hostile.

Your argument STILL boils down to sanc saying 'we wanted to wave them so we did'



Just face it, Rage wanted to run away from BiO and BiO did not want to let them do that.

how is it you think this is a good argument? waving into active hostile is still waving into active hostile regardless.

Either you're intentionally ignoring facts or you're just missing them, but I don't see a need to repeat myself.

Rage getting waved by Psych Ward is clearly not Rage running - BIO had not initiated until after Psych Ward did, and even then, Rage was not the aggressor in either case.

How? Mostly by paying attention to what actually happened :)

[TheRock]

The point of defining hostiles is to prevent a kingdom from getting doubled. Sanc was in no way shape or form getting doubled, so whether or not 1 hit constitutes a hostile or not in this case doesn't matter.

If you want to really lock up a hostile, you make 8 hits. If you aren't prepared to do that then your answer isn't to just hit someone anyways if they hit someone else.

The game defines what a hostile is for us. We've added the cow hit being included in a hostile to prevent 2 cows from hitting 1 cow in commonly accepted practice, that's to protect one cow from being doubled up on. That was not the case here.

You can't know that someone may dodge you, balk on locking up a hostile, then wave when someone goes to dodge you.

I'll buy your premise, but not your conclusion. You're essentially saying that since Sanc hadn't hit enough yet, even though they'd started actions against Simians, Simians had the right to wave someone else and demand Sanc not hit anymore. I don't agree with that. I've always strongly believed that the protection of hostiles should be, as you said, to prevent a kingdom from getting doubled. It is not a mechanism by which kingdoms can avoid a fight that's already begun.

[TheRock]

TheRock,

took me all of page 2 in that Simians vs Abs thread to find a relevant comment from leadership regarding forced training and consequences involved:

Just so we're clear, you're quoting someone from Rage, who re-cfed Simians, as saying Simians thinks they'll get away scot free, as the "excuse given" by Sanctuary on why they waved Simians? Doesn't make sense to me, especially given how ambiguous the statement is (to wit - I don't see, at all, how that would imply an intention to double hostile or gangbang).

[TheRock]

7 hits is not a wave.

Stop your posturing.

Sucks having a taste of your own medicine huh?

Are you suggesting that it's ok to hit into a hostile as long as it's not a wave?

My posturing? I don't think I've posted anything in this thread that isn't based in the facts, unless otherwise noted. How is pointing to facts "posturing"?

This all seems quite familiar :)

[flogger]

I'll buy your premise, but not your conclusion. You're essentially saying that since Sanc hadn't hit enough yet, even though they'd started actions against Simians, Simians had the right to wave someone else and demand Sanc not hit anymore. I don't agree with that. I've always strongly believed that the protection of hostiles should be, as you said, to prevent a kingdom from getting doubled. It is not a mechanism by which kingdoms can avoid a fight that's already begun.

Having to go way back in the memory banks here but didn't you spend like one age going in and out of ghetto wars dodging someone for like a month?

Fairly sure you lead us dodging someone else while we played together as well.

[John Snowstorm]

Either you're intentionally ignoring facts or you're just missing them, but I don't see a need to repeat myself.

Rage getting waved by Psych Ward is clearly not Rage running - BIO had not initiated until after Psych Ward did, and even then, Rage was not the aggressor in either case.

How? Mostly by paying attention to what actually happened :)

I was being facetious pointing out that whether they're running or not makes no difference to whether you should wave into a legitimate hostile.

But apparently you think it IS ok to wave into a hostile just because you FEEL the kd is running from you. Even if they are that's no reason to wave into a legit hostile.

Additionally its stupid because you can make up any story you like about how X was running from you, ie, when notices came up rage realised that either kingdom was going to be a hard fight given their level of prep and they opted to take the risk on fury as it would be less embarrassing to potentially lose to fury than bio for them given proteus' trash talk. Thus Rage are running from bio and bio dont want to let them do that.

Most likely untrue, but it doesn't matter, the point is the idea that you can wave into legit hostile becuase you feel someone is running from you is retarded.

[ZodZilla]

@TheRock

So you're suggesting that only 'facts' matter, and that interpretation/opinion is of little-to-no merit? How exactly is that not 'posturing' (more precisely posturing that detracts from the ability to have this kind of discussion, and thus is an attempt to quell it, imo)?

[TheRock]

Having to go way back in the memory banks here but didn't you spend like one age going in and out of ghetto wars dodging someone for like a month?

Fairly sure you lead us dodging someone else while we played together as well.

I've never waved another kingdom while a first kingdom hit me, then told the first kingdom to back off. I've absolutely waved other kingdoms while a first kingdom wanted to wave me, but never after they'd started hits. That's consistent with what I've said here.

[baka]

Are you suggesting that it's ok to hit into a hostile as long as it's not a wave?

My posturing? I don't think I've posted anything in this thread that isn't based in the facts, unless otherwise noted. How is pointing to facts "posturing"?

This all seems quite familiar :)

Okay I'll bite.

Wait.. who are you btw?

Ah yes.. in the same alliance as the rest of the posturers.

Nvm.. continue.

I hit whoever I want anyways. You as well very soon. But since your kd is not as filthy as the other 2 in the same alliance, I'll play nice with you as you've played nice with us. Your alliance should all learn a thing or two from HoH.

I also suggest you contact us for a CF extension. Or are you going to try and save your fellow alliance-mates? My vulturing eyes have them on lock down.

[TheRock]

@TheRock

So you're suggesting that only 'facts' matter, and that interpretation/opinion is of little-to-no merit? How exactly is that not 'posturing' (more precisely posturing that detracts from the ability to have this kind of discussion, and thus is an attempt to quell it, imo)?

No, there's always a grey area. I'm just saying that it's completely unfair to ignore facts that distinguish situations, and likewise unfair to claim facts with no actual proof they happened. As I said in a previous post, if you'd like to look at the situation and say Sanctuary was wrong, I'll understand that. I disagree with the position, but I recognize the merits of the argument and that the conclusion is feasible.

If you'd like to point to a few things and say THAT SITUATION AND THIS ARE IDENTICAL, I disagree, and I've shown the facts that say why. You might still say both are wrong, but the facts show key distinguishing features. Hitting a kingdom you'd already started hitting and sent a dragon to is not the same as hitting a kingdom that is actively hostile with another kingdom and that you have zero relations with or actions towards prior to hitting. I've yet to see anyone provide any reasoning that demonstrates that the two situations are identical or nearly so.