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Thread: A spin on the meta: The efficient attacker!

  1. #1
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    A spin on the meta: The efficient attacker!

    Please note before reading -THIS IS NOT A WAR BUILD- one of the dramatic weaknesses of this build is getting your peasants dunked on; in order for this to work you must make sure nobody can fireball your ass.

    A lot of the attacker builds I see revolve around getting in and around 75-80% draft rate (sometimes more)

    These often lead to extremely low building effectiveness percentages.

    I thought to tilt the scale in the opposite direction, where in you could run a low draft percentage of 50% but use the building effectiveness boost of being a dwarf, combined with science to abuse training grounds and forts to compensate for the loss of military numbers; the result is a somewhat hilarious build:

    9% Farms
    9% Guilds
    4% Towers
    1.5% Dungeons
    16.5% Training Grounds
    16.5% Forts
    24% Homes
    9.5% Watchtowers
    10% Stables

    Before you flip out at the missing buildings (like hospitals, rax and banks) listen to the numbers this build can pull, using only 150 nwpa I can achieve 57 OPA, and 58.5 DPA with army at home, (41.3 with army out). All with only 100bpa in tools.

    Now I will explain why having some missing buildings is not that big a deal.

    -Why no Guardstations?
    When you have only 150 NWPA anyone your size or larger will have considerably reduced gains.
    Additionally you can pick on people much smaller than you are with maximum gains at no risk of retaliation.

    -Why no Barracks?
    As a dwarf you have access to the quickfeet spell and if you choose the tactician it is like having 20% barracks as any other race.

    -Why no Banks?
    Because you are only at 53% Draft the entire time you have a much larger peasant population feeding you money. (nearly two and a half times the raw income of someone at 80% draft)

    -Why no Hospitals?
    Smaller Army = less losses. Less attacks without barracks and less incoming because you're networth is so low.

    -Why would I want to do this over just 75-80% Draft?
    Anonymity becomes the most overpowered spell in the game for you. When you have 150NWPA nobody will suspect that you are making hits on people your size and larger, you also get to smash people much smaller than you are who have no hope of retaliating. The build only gets increasingly strong with science as it lets you draft a higher and higher percentage of troops which is compounded by your high TG and Fort %.

    -What's the catch?
    200% Military wages, however compared to a person at 80% Draft you will still only be paying 25% more military wages if they are paying 100% wage rate and you have 250% of the raw gold income to compensate.

    For anyone interested in the math:
    24% Homes = Max pop of 26920 at 1000 acres.
    at 53% Draft rate that's 12562 peasants filling a required 12730 jobs for max efficiency
    (1000 acres - 240 homes = 12730 peasants for max efficiency)
    the 14190 military units are now divided as follows:
    1k thieves (with the 9% watchtowers at +32% effectiveness and clearsight you will be fine)
    6k elites
    7k+ Def specs

    6k elites = 36k raw offense + 6k horses = 42k
    TG's = 27.27% boost to offense
    200% wage = 7.5% boost to offense
    36.8% boost in offense = 57.46k offense

    7.19k def specs = 28.76k raw defense 40.76k with elites home
    36.8% boost is 39343 defense with army out and 55760 when elites are home.
    Add in minor protection to make 41310 and 58548 respectively.

    NW
    70 for the acre
    12.73 for the peasants
    6 elites at 5 nw is 30
    5.7 horses at 0.6 is 3.42
    7.19 def specs is 28.76
    144.91 NW/acre
    (excludes wizards, gold and science)

  2. #2
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    That looks good on paper, but war is not a static situation. Gold drake + FB.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    That looks good on paper, but war is not a static situation. Gold drake + FB.
    Boom! Kapow! Done!

    :D

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    It's funny because you claim to be so good at strategy and yet don't even read the first thing I write in all caps.
    Last edited by theuser; 10-10-2012 at 12:57.

  5. #5
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    Then what is it, cos its not an oow pump build.
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    OOW ghetto land growth. You make 1-2 attacks/day and because your draft rate is reasonable it's easy to quickly grow into it.

  7. #7
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    You are asking to be waved with a build like that. Your OOW growth build should be very similar to your war build. If you want to grow safely in a ghetto just dice or explore.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by theuser View Post
    OOW ghetto land growth. You make 1-2 attacks/day and because your draft rate is reasonable it's easy to quickly grow into it.
    As you said this inst a "war" build so i wont point out all the glaring holes that u'd face if u tried to war with it. That said the 75% and higher draft rate is only viable for a war build and takes DAYs to draft up to so its not really fair to even mention that number unless you are trying to compare your build to a war build.

    If your actively trying to grow as an attacker your much more likely to safely run a draft rate in to 60-65% range, with a higher opa that you list, a high rate of hospitals and no homes.
    Do attack-attack-plunder, attack-attack-plunder. The extra plunder and hospitals slows your growth just enough that u maintain a decent nw/acre and stay in that 60-65% trained. The only catch is your likely only going to be able to do this till you catch up to your kd average size or slightly higher. As well your kd can only do this till they hit about top 15-20 kds in the world. After that there's no real way to maintain growth without another kd feeding on you harder than you can grow, thus you'd have to slow down and war.

    Alternatively with as cheap as explore is you could just explore/dice up any acres you need to grow safely.

  9. #9
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    Why do people insist on being silly?

    That said, it's not absolutely necessary to be at 75-80% draft, and in a lot of ways high draft rates can be detrimental. 60-65% is good for landwhoring attacker, and capable of fighting a war almost as well as the higher DR provinces. Because land is a limited resource, most provinces have no choice but to bump up their draft rate if they want more raw offense and raw defense.

    For what it's worth, I was running something like 150 nw/a, super high offense when I scipumped earlier in the age, and regularly targetted faeries in kingdoms that couldn't retal. I almost never got hit back, and rarely suffered ops... unfortunately it led to a situation where i couldn't be useful in a war situation, and the rest of my kingdom paid the price. Making a province that looks good on paper doesn't translate to something that's good for your kingdom.

    If I had a low draft rate, homes would be the last thing I want to build, whether warring or whoring. The extra peasants don't mean as much, and my birthrates will be good enough with just LP even with a fast growth rate. With higher BE, other buildings do much more for me economically and militarily.

    Actually if not for the insistence on running homes, it wouldn't be automatically bad to run 55-60% draft, but you will probably want to run gs as you will leak tons of acres in war - acres which help your enemies prevent overpop and win the early war. Of course, if you're not hit, then it's not as big a problem.

    If I had a large income base to work with, banks would be a priority, to rake in even more money.
    Last edited by nooblet; 10-10-2012 at 19:56.

  10. #10
    Post Demon lastunicorn's Avatar
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    why were you useless? you were hitting faeries for land or sci?

  11. #11
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    in short - kingdoms feel free to wave your kingdom if they know they can chain a high offense province upon declaration... why would they hit the fatty in that spot?

  12. #12
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    Thumbs up

    im sorry, but my 3.2k posts say your strategy is crap.
    "Go back to the gym because you f'king suck at utopia, noob." -Godly



    My classic black theme for Utopia - Updated 5/13/15

    Quote Originally Posted by darkl1ght View Post
    Unfortunately, no amount of razes will improve your war record
    Greatest strategy thread/question of all-time.

  13. #13
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    the best way to gain land in ghettoes is to war and win.

  14. #14
    I like to post KuhaN's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    i like your style nooblet.
    "Go back to the gym because you f'king suck at utopia, noob." -Godly



    My classic black theme for Utopia - Updated 5/13/15

    Quote Originally Posted by darkl1ght View Post
    Unfortunately, no amount of razes will improve your war record
    Greatest strategy thread/question of all-time.

  15. #15
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    Gojete is this you or whatever your name was?
    To avoid being bottom fead on.... be number one... if you can't do that then just expect it.. and plan for it build more offence... and kick their teeth in...

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