Mechanics changes to encourage growth

[goodz]

Goal: Allow people to more quickly optimize their provinces to how they want them for war, this should make land dropping unnecessary and make the top more competitive.

Science: You have 100 science points to allocate into your bonuses. Make the max into a single category 50 points, and have it on a curve as it is now so that putting 50 points into a single category is not a great use of points. If you decide to change your science it will slowly settle to the new level over 72 hours.

WPA: The biggest complaint most make about growth is that they can't keep wizards up. This is understandable since it is not uncommon for a province to double or even triple in size in a war. Currently this means the KD must wait a 1-2 week for the provinces WPA to get back to the same level or they can land drop. As a result the top 50 is not nearly as competitive as it should be. Allow wizards to be purchased. 1000gc. (half price for mystics). Guilds will be given a small WPA modifier similar to thieves dens (mod = 1/2 the thieves dens mod works in my mind). They will still effect spell duration in the same way.

EoW: Winning a war will result in you gaining 10% honor based on your opponents end of war honor level. You will also gain 5 acres for every hour you were in war up to a maximum of 12k acres (96 hours*5acres*25 provinces) These new acres will be applied to your smallest provinces first, it will likely result in you having several provinces on the same acreage at the bottom, with your top provinces gaining nothing.

[Palem]

I don't like any of those changes :(

[Persain]

same concepts different approach is to just double/triple wizard training in end of war cf, and to make science not purchasable/learnable in books but bpa.

The science thing might hurt chained people a little (in that you have 500 bpa in say pop it doesnt become 1000 bpa when chained) but honestly chained people already survive to easily enough.

[Bishop]

i dont like any of these really, and the wpa wont happen, ever

[goodz]

same concepts different approach is to just double/triple wizard training in end of war cf, and to make science not purchasable/learnable in books but bpa.

The science thing might hurt chained people a little (in that you have 500 bpa in say pop it doesnt become 1000 bpa when chained) but honestly chained people already survive to easily enough.

I considered that but imagine start of age you war, then you get to have 3x wizard production! seems hard to balance.

[Poggo]

I love these suggestions.

[Persain]

I considered that but imagine start of age you war, then you get to have 3x wizard production! seems hard to balance.

true, but ideally when in war u are running something like 20% guilds so u know u can actually win the war instead of a pump build that actually builds up wpa. Might not be perfect but hard to balance=/=impossible look at the explore formula. In all honestly though wpa pumping isnt that terrible as every kd needs a a break from warring now and again and the slow build up of wpa forces that, while it'd be nice i'd say there are other things more important.

For example a way to fix science so that i can grow from 2000-6000 acres and war a kd whose been siting at 2-3 times my size all age. Sure i have no problem with a kd that science pumps having better science than me, but over the course of an age the "big" kds build up millions more books simply by being big. Heck even a 20% size advantage leads to 56% better science, which can be a pretty big advantage mid-late age that learns are unikely to overcome. If you want wars to force growth either honor needs to be much less transferable and act as a surget to science so growing to war someone larger than u isnt such a big disadvantage or some kinda fix that addresses the fact that just being big snowballs science a bit hard over an age.

[Darkz Azn]

easy ... honor and sci are 50% effective when below 5k~ =)

[Zobo]

I like 1k gc wizards, as long as you can't buy them during war and you can't buy them during the first week.

[Persain]

easy ... honor and sci are 50% effective when below 5k~ =)

That would seem...well Odd. How about u accrue science at half the rate when above 5000 acres too so u can actually catch up to those top kds :P

[Yadda9To5]

Maybe before encouraging growth, as was the goal last age, and the age before that, maybe first decide WHY provs need to grow, and understand why kds/provs don't want to grow.

To me it seems that the only reason to "help" ghetto's grow is so that the established kds can feed on them, while the established kds grow to be fed on by the top kds. Isn't that kind of lame? Shouldn't kd's grow to GET and FEEL stronger? Right now the simple fact that crucial effects are calculated per acre (tpa/wpa/science per acre) makes that growing too fast weakens you, you don't GET stronger by growing. The fact that, in general, activity (even more (active in) wars means more broken honor these days) is the all determining factor makes that no matter how much you grow you don't FEEL stronger either as more active kds will eat you for breakfast. The smallest kds don't even get the joy of having a full kd, so even in the most basic way, province count, they CAN'T be equal to bigger kds, so even if they have what it takes to compete with big kds, they just can't cause they lack activity in recruiting beyond 20, right now 20 player kds that grow cause it's so easy sooner or later gets their heads smacked off by full kds. All this makes growing almost a punishment.

For many kds, maybe even the majority, growth simply isn't a goal. Most kds just want to bash other kds, and, apart from the top, they do that best when not growing.

[goodz]

Maybe before encouraging growth, as was the goal last age, and the age before that, maybe first decide WHY provs need to grow, and understand why kds/provs don't want to grow.

To me it seems that the only reason to "help" ghetto's grow is so that the established kds can feed on them, while the established kds grow to be fed on by the top kds. Isn't that kind of lame? Shouldn't kd's grow to GET and FEEL stronger? Right now the simple fact that crucial effects are calculated per acre (tpa/wpa/science per acre) makes that growing too fast weakens you, you don't GET stronger by growing. The fact that, in general, activity (even more (active in) wars means more broken honor these days) is the all determining factor makes that no matter how much you grow you don't FEEL stronger either as more active kds will eat you for breakfast. The smallest kds don't even get the joy of having a full kd, so even in the most basic way, province count, they CAN'T be equal to bigger kds, so even if they have what it takes to compete with big kds, they just can't cause they lack activity in recruiting beyond 20, right now 20 player kds that grow cause it's so easy sooner or later gets their heads smacked off by full kds. All this makes growing almost a punishment.

For many kds, maybe even the majority, growth simply isn't a goal. Most kds just want to bash other kds, and, apart from the top, they do that best when not growing.

I believe my suggestion made it so wpa and bpa would not be a factor. I am talking about how to get the kingdoms ranked between 10 and 50 larger to put more of a gap between them and the ghettos.

[Persain]

Maybe before encouraging growth, as was the goal last age, and the age before that, maybe first decide WHY provs need to grow, and understand why kds/provs don't want to grow.

Growth is good because it separates good from bad. The only way to defend when attacked is to either take hits or fight back. Fighting back=>war and the better kd SHOULD gain more acres and grow. While if you just take hits you should bleed acres and get smaller. Given enough time and no land dropping eventually the land/nw charts would be organized best/worst kds in the game. ultimately this would lead to things like if rage wanted to hit say some random ghetto the KD nw Factor would give them almost zero gains and their attack time would be >>12 hours and everyone would be forced to play with people ~ their own skill/activity level.

The reason kds dont want to grow easy.
1.You want to war smaller/worse kds early to build up honor base on your t/m and test your new age setup. Even kds who are clearly a taged ghetto can teach you that your elfs were poor choice and maybe u should of ran fearis ;). Better to figure out mid age how to adapt and build up some honor on the elfs than to have to reroll the prov.
2. If you grow early you end up with few targets late age when u get big. Most war kds dont wanna war the same kd 2 times in 1 age.
3. Size control. Its much easier to grow post war to adjust your kd prov make-up to the ideal size than to have 4 t/m and 2 attackers 5k acres while the rest of your kd its on 1500 acres. This leads to point 2 if you just grow everyone.

Honestly EVERY war kd uses plunder/learn to controll growth ALOT. If you just learn/plunder while you train up/wait for your kd to train your kd wont grow in size. And if you war wave is 1-2 land grabs and 15 learns your not going to grow as a kd. Perhaps a good way to stop stalled growth would be to add land gains to learn/plunder. That way kds cant just sit and stall growth while they train up and become small but uber pumped.


edit

I believe my suggestion made it so wpa and bpa would not be a factor. I am talking about how to get the kingdoms ranked between 10 and 50 larger to put more of a gap between them and the ghettos.

personally anything that fixes science such that a pumped "War" kd doesnt sit on 2-3 million books while the "top" sits on 10-15k books would go a LONG way towards solving the problem. Losing massive amounts of bpa just makes growing hard compared to simply stalling to pump wpa.