Only there is a lot of history here concerning church and school. Modern public schools are very crappy compared to the school the churches had, or more churches had, not only did you learn all your basic math, algebra, but you learned a min of Latin and Greek, that is the historical public school. So my point was the "public" schools system in the USA, sucks compared to the old church one.Originally Posted by Palem
#magi
You don't really need to compare it to anything to say that the public school system in the USA sucks. The board of education is much more concerned with hitting the right numbers than actually teaching kids. As it stands a minimum-standard graduate can be thrown out into the world with...
-Algebra-level math skills
-A very basic understanding of English language and grammar
-An understanding of very basic "social science" subjects
-Absolutely no instruction in the fields they may actually be interested in
^That is a "successful" product of America's public education system. I don't care if that's the #1 standard in the world, it sucks.
The public school system in most places is what the parents and students make of it.
I graduated HS with 40 college credits including 3 years of calculus and 3 of CS.
I didn't consider my workload excessive and I don't consider myself some sort of super intelligent person, I just actually took advantage of the education options available to me.
The objection to teaching evolution had more to do with association between Darwinism and eugenics, than a genuine theological argument - at least, that is the only reason the creationist movement gained widespread support.
Education systems are not built to make sure everyone has a decent education, but to make sure children are sufficiently indoctrinated and don't get ideas that would disrupt the order in place. Doesn't matter if they're in the church, from the state, or through secret ninja societies. If anything, the system has a interest in perpetuating inequality and making sure the majority of its products don't have a future. The schooling system is just a giant sorting mechanism, by design it creates 80-90% failures, and then teaches the failures to take pride in what are essentially lumps of horseflesh. A few IQ points becomes literally the difference between life and death.
Parochial schools can run the gamut to fairly decent, to downright pathetic in standards. For the ones I heard about, you're more likely to get nothing more than the bare minimum (as in, even worse than the public education system) and blatant political indoctrination. The Catholic schools generally do a better job of holding themselves to actual standards from what I remember. I've never been so can't say for sure, but I'd be the devil in any system.
Yes, I took advantage of what was given to me too, but that's not the point.
The reason just having a high school diploma doesn't mean anything anymore is because it's so absurdly easy to earn your high school diploma. Graduating from high school only really guarantees that you're about as smart as what I would consider to be a fairly smart 12/13 year old.
The reason the standards are so low is because the people in charge are more interested in earning high graduation rates and no so interested in making sure that their students have actually been educated.
Last edited by Palem; 21-01-2015 at 21:41.
Well if the USA is not better then the past then it is a failure!
#magi
I agree completely with that statement.
But as I already mentioned, failure in education is the point. So in a twisted fashion, it's a total success.
Your lucky if they can read past a grade school level & forget about most knowing Algebra. If anything they only have a rudimentary grasp of it.
I didn't graduate high school, I dropped out in the 10th grade so can't say I took advantage of what was available. But I did go get my GED and low & behold I round up with a scholarship because my test scores were higher than 97% of actual graduates.
That's got me thinking about education and the more I looked into it & thought about it...the more hostile I became to it. Because I dropped out because I was going to fail. Why was I going to fail? Because I never did any of the homework. I didn't do any homework cause I thought I demonstrated my grasp & understanding of the material with never scoring under 90% on any test. If they didn't believe the scores or thought I was somehow cheating, I challenged them to test my comprehension orally.
Ya, being antagonistic probably was not the best route for me to go...but you know...kids and all that lol.
"...We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or of science. We are not to raise up among them authors, orators, poets, or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians. Nor will we cherish even the humbler ambition to raise up from among them lawyers, doctors, preachers, statesmen, of whom we now have ample supply."
- Rev. Frederick T. Gates, Business Advisor to John D. Rockefeller Sr., 1913
How can we expect it to accomplish anything with this as it's foundation?
Don't know when this became about religious vs secular, especially when most of the education here in the States was neither. A good portion of it was home schooling with limited public schools acting as a socialization factor/touch up on what the parents missed, which were funded mostly by the local towns. Not by either the state & even less by the federal government. The setting for the public education was the local church, yes...but had more to do with practicality than indoctrination.
But that is precisely my point. Back when we were on the Monitorial System we had true education. People were learning & becoming productive citizens compared to the hodge podge of mixed doctrines that we are stuck with today.
Maybe if the various adoptations and transformations we've had would be more beneficial if the root our modern system wasn't so hostile to people actually learning.
Last edited by insane; 22-01-2015 at 20:51. Reason: made a lil oopsy
watch zeitgeist and you will be enlightened on why capitalism fails
zeitgeist is filled with tons of nonsense; so no thanks.
#magi
Capitalalism got derailed I'm afraid.
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