HoH vs Divinity?

[Persain]

Persian you are a good guy and I have nothing against you but man it was quite clear what your goals were these age, simply put the 3 kds I mentioned did outplay you.

not arguing they didn't. but its been a fun age and we have wared 2 kds we wouldnt normally and there still time for 1 more kd, so its not a failure. the goal wasnt specfically to WAR sanc, it was war a differnt group of kds. I'd be lying if i said i we fought every kd we wanted but one age at a time, one war at a time, heck lots of kds below us and i wanted to say hi to them too so no rush. maybe they can catch up.

But you get my point and you have booted me so many times from our channel one more time won't hurt :p

i'll just ban u again....messes up your auto relog. maybe this time your notice before i pm u and unban, crazy euros and your ability to thwart me....i shall not be usurped ;)

[jamin]

Meh, I lost 2 mill science out of 20 mill, and gained 3000 acres, only 1 successful offensive thievery op on me out of 50+ and it was for 900k bushels, no spells went through successfully. I don't know about anyone else in my kd, but I'm going to call that nearly as good as a war win :)

In reply to you Persain, it was trash talking, just because we choose to become friends with abs doesn't make us spineless, it makes us strategically smart as we always finish near the top and also have 2 age wins to our name. People who call us spineless...makes me think they just jellyyyyyy.

[protector]

I just want to point one thing one and its not particularly directed at anyone but using warwin records as a way to track wins/losses is a flawed approach. The reason for this is you can still lose to someone outside of war. If a kingdom waves you and is more prepared than you and you know that pushing button will result in a loss, you can simply go the diplomatic route and offer them a free wave/land in exchange for CF. That still however is a loss because the kingdom who waved was stronger than you and outplayed you + took your land. Sure it's not a loss in war but it is still a loss to that kingdom because they imposed their will on you and took your acres.

As an analogy, if you are a boxing champion and are in control of what fights you pick when others challenge you for the title, and only pick fights you can win..thats not the same thing as accepting every fight and winning it.

There might be a perfect war record when you select the wars but that's not the same as being undefeated because when kingdoms wave you OOW and you can't fight them that still counts as a loss to you.

War basically happens when its on even terms, close to even, or there is a decent chance of winning. If you have a very small or no chance you might just not war as its less time consuming to give up acres. However, that still doesn't change the fact the kingdom you gave acres to played better and were able to take land from you.

Atleast this matters for kingdoms that play for land. When we wave someone from better positioning, that better positioning is due to better execution of strategy, its not because of luck or chance. So still means they got one over you due to better play.

By your logic, you lost to Insolence a couple of ages ago. Agree? ;p

[protector]

Meh, I lost 2 mill science out of 20 mill, and gained 3000 acres, only 1 successful offensive thievery op on me out of 50+ and it was for 900k bushels, no spells went through successfully. I don't know about anyone else in my kd, but I'm going to call that nearly as good as a war win :)

In reply to you Persain, it was trash talking, just because we choose to become friends with abs doesn't make us spineless, it makes us strategically smart as we always finish near the top and also have 2 age wins to our name. People who call us spineless...makes me think they just jellyyyyyy.

People call you spineless because you haven't really shown the quality of your kingdom in any recent age. Sanctuary, Mercy and Rage had their fights with other kingdoms while you just whored and sciencepumped
Your most recent crown was a farm-out from Simians; I wouldn't brag too much about it ;p
The other one was fine I suppose even tho you didn't quite fight anyone that age, at least that one was more respectable as your most recent.

With no disrespect, but I fail to see how you're so surprised about the difference. You've pumped science for 10 weeks, while Divinity had a couple of fights. What did you expect? :P

[Degenerateuk]

There are cases when age after age one kingdom always takes acres from another and that kingdom is never in position to war because they would lose even more acres. You can pretty easily say that one kingdom is better than another.

Persian the thing is this age it was your goal to get into range to war the top kingdoms. Hence your arena of the competition was T5 warring. You were in the T5 but could not really go toe to toe with any of these kingdoms. Instead of warring you chose to give acres for CFs or retal war. To put it bluntly you were outplayed by these kingdoms because their positioning was better, there is no way to argue around that. HOH, Sanc, and Rage each had a different strategy. To simplify things Rage and Sanc both played very aggressive and accumulated as much land as possible while HoH was much more passive in taking acres and pumped massive science. However, Divinity was unable to actually fight any of these kingdoms on even terms. This resulted from your overall age strategy rather than "bad luck." But it seems as if you are discounting this and taking a mulligan here.

No you didn't lose to any of these kingdoms in war but thats actually because you could not war any of them due to their superior positioning. None of these kingdoms had anything extraordinary going for them that allowed them to get positioning, they just played well.

While its not a WW, when someone takes land from you against your will it still counts as them having one over you.

Yea there are times when you eat a wave from someone and go on to win the age or come back and own that kingdom in war. Perfect case and point is charting kingdoms at times eat waves from kingdoms whoi wave them in previous ages so that their growth would not be impeded. With the new mechanics giving 5k acre bonus and free sci/credits that is no longer an issue as getting an early age WW is quite strong.

Persian you are a good guy and I have nothing against you but man it was quite clear what your goals were these age, simply put the 3 kds I mentioned did outplay you.

All true, and good points.

I would agree with Leeroy, spending 4-5 weeks messing with PewPew hurt our growth significantly (consider we warred them twice, one with extended hostilities, as well as dropping 40% or so of our NW to war brainstorm).

These were our choices of course, and so have resulted in us being behind. But if for example a kingdom set out to ruin any of our ages while in NW range, they probably could just by making you fall behind relative to the pack, not necessarily by beating you.

[Proteus]

By your logic, you lost to Insolence a couple of ages ago. Agree? ;p

By my logic, insolence "got one over us" or whatever you want to call it same way we got one over you the age we waved you and you gave up the wave. The one thing to point out is we would have love to push a button on you except you were WAY of declare range and more of a griefer rather than someone like Divinity not being able to war HOH (mechanics allow Divinity to push Button but we we're unable to without week long+ retal war which doesn't even guarantee being able to force war).

It definitely counts, I remember taking the age off from leading and having myself and ASF tell Jackson that we should be much more pumped as out of range could wave us and trim off some of our acres and it would be too costly to retal war them. So yes it definitely counted for something.

It was also part of strategy at the same time in terms of giving up whatever wave netted you rather than retal warring over it knowing we'd never get into war and would just lose time from randoming, dicing. As we were #1 at EOA before Simians farmout, I'd say it was a good strategic call.

[protector]

By my logic, insolence "got one over us" or whatever you want to call it same way we got one over you the age we waved you and you gave up the wave. The one thing to point out is we would have love to push a button on you except you were WAY of declare range and more of a griefer rather than someone like Divinity not being able to war HOH (mechanics allow Divinity to push Button but we we're unable to without week long+ retal war which doesn't even guarantee being able to force war).

It definitely counts, I remember taking the age off from leading and having myself and ASF tell Jackson that we should be much more pumped as out of range could wave us and trim off some of our acres and it would be too costly to retal war them. So yes it definitely counted for something.

It was also part of strategy at the same time in terms of giving up whatever wave netted you rather than retal warring over it knowing we'd never get into war and would just lose time from randoming, dicing. As we were #1 at EOA before Simians farmout, I'd say it was a good strategic call.

Rage was lucky CGG gave you a deal behind everyone elses back. You big provs had no troops and you'd have eaten 3-4 waves before you'd even be partially trained up. You got caught pants down on low draft and if it wasnt for CGG it would have been much more costly. Mind you, I wasnt active at the time and i yhink it was Godlys idea to wave

[Retailer]

Well Jamin, You noticed us and we did intend to fight you. Truly we did. We put the train in motion and started working out which plan and what approach to have. But then as you just skyrocketed in NW after the declare. And then had to drop about 2 mill to get the dragon/declare range we kind of noticed that with that sick amount of NW and those sick gain-sciences you could do OONW hits and still have great gains.

Based on the sots alot of your humans were down to 2-4 ppa which meant the chunk of your kd's econ would be your stockpile.
So we quickly saw that you had t/m superiority with more and harder pumped faerys. Your humans would shred NS on our orcs while gains would be similar. Your stockpiled cash gave you a huge eco-advantage as a start.

Not to mention you had a 10 mill NW lead and the cash to increase the NW-gap.

So our conclusion was we needed a long hostile period. And were thinking that the -15% gains emerald + the -50% gains from fort could negate your gains. (Sapph wouldnt do much Our faeries would be protectec by -50% t/m effect of fort. While our orcs wouldnt stand a chance even with a sapph to protect them)

Quite quick we realized we couldnt tank you guys in a long hostile to reduce your cash-flow and try to drop the nw-difference. Esp since you could suicide on us. Only way to then protect us would be to declare. And declaring at that point would be suicide.

Now all flames aside. Should we hit the button and "take it like a big boy"? Considered it... we really did. In the end we decided to not do it.
So in this case i dont think mechanics are broken. HoH were bigger than us by far. We decided we wouldnt be able to close that NW-gap as it were. And HoH decided to then take some free-acres from us. =)

Gl to you HoH and perhaps we'll catch eachother next age ;-)

I

[Anri]

Your most recent crown was a farm-out from Simians; I wouldn't brag too much about it ;p

We farmed em out the age before this. So, i dont know what they got to brag about in general til they prove they can get some top wins.
Like you said, they should not brag.

[Palem]

I haven't seen anyone from HoH bragging about their crown, unless you consider stating the fact that they crowned as bragging.

[protector]

I haven't seen anyone from HoH bragging about their crown, unless you consider stating the fact that they crowned as bragging.

In the context he put it, I consider it bragging.

[Palem]

*shrugs*

[Anri]

just because we choose to become friends with abs doesn't make us spineless, it makes us strategically smart as we always finish near the top and also have 2 age wins to our name. People who call us spineless...makes me think they just jellyyyyyy.

Everyone that CFs the best competition on the server is craptastic. I count HoH among these kind of KDs.

In my beleif you should war the best KDs, you dont CF them like little ......... age after age after age.

You still play the most boring game on the server with your age long pumps. You call it smart, i call it boring and i call it weak.

You should try what it is like to war, maybe even war on even terms. Last times your KD tried this they pretty much lost all wars.
Does not matter if the opponent was Simians or anyone else. Your KD is an insect, feasting upon absalom. Without them you are nothing.
With them you sooooo gooood!

0-0 wars again... jesus...

With that much happening anyone could have your sick science and be larger then you are.
How hard is it...

STEP UP YOUR GAME AND WAR ABSALOM!

YOU ARE TAGGING HALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even i am pissed about this fact even if i am not HaLL.

Anyway, i just end this with saying HoH is cowards

[Persain]

Everyone that CFs the best competition on the server is craptastic. I count HoH among these kind of KDs.

In my beleif you should war the best KDs, you dont CF them like little ......... age after age after age.

early cf to try to catch up is valid....we tried that couldnt catch up. guess it wasnt the right move.

[jamin]

Respect to "Retailer" good reply, I take my hat off to you good sir so +1, good to see there are some sensible people with cool heads in Divinity.

Anri, as always, I love you, your opinion means as much to me as the old Jehova's witness couple that knocks on my door every 3 weeks trying to convert me.

And at the end of the day, 2 age crowns is 2 age crowns, fact. How we choose to play is up to us, and everyone else had and still has equal opportunity to make friends and alliances with whomever they see fit. The game does not force anything on you and we have not broken any game rules whatsoever. You guys play your game we will play ours. Complaining about it falls on deaf ears.