something I find odd. . .

[Zauper]

Very much dissagree. Being an attacker and in a "good kd" requires you to do nothing more then to follow a set build that your kd has set, being there when your army comes in and attacking the chain target or off target that is set, along with knowing how to manage overpop.

T/M on the other side, have to have a very balance build including tpa and wpa, along with dpa. (of course were going to have more def, we dont have the off to hit back what is taken) And again if your in a kd worth a crap you will have to be 3x's more active then the attackers, and more flexible, for you will need to logg on when enemy armies are coming in (prop the hell out of them), have to logg on at random times to make sure that durations are up (ms,riots,greeds,storms, Etc.) And then on top of that if you start getting Conquested down you have to do all the same as an attacker without being able to hit back for land. Not to mention if you are a rogue that is worth a crap, you will have mystics all over you and vice versa if you are a mystic that is active and worth a crap.

Having an attacker that is going to be there army in army out is very very important, but most if not all of the better kd's know you put your most active players in T/M slots. thanks and good day.

Ah yes, the infamous good SK monarch 'gotcha' is here to educate us all by telling us what the good kds know.

So being an attacker in a good kd doesn't involve having TPA, WPA, or DPA? This is news to me. I was unaware that only t/ms had to balance their population. I was also unaware that t/ms are never given orders. This is good to learn from you, infamous SK monarch gotcha.

If you look at some of the top kds, as far as I can tell, their most active players aren't in their t/m slots which would seem to disprove your assertion.

Persain: Sure, most of my experience as a t/m is older, aside from my age as a t/m in PBs - where I went t/m because I was going to be less active and everyone agreed that was appropriate. It's not like the role of a t/m has changed. There are no new anti-t/m ops, the economy of a t/m is frankly less important than it was back then (no more soldier pool), t/ms no longer have to worry about managing stealth for defensive purposes. All of these are reasons why back in the day, t/ms needed to be more active and you were STILL better off with them not being the most active players in the kd. Also, cows (can't) be t/ms because they use their mana to do things like ToG, rather than keep up MS. It's really a completely different function.

We're far from a #1 capable kingdom right now, but our t/m slots aren't occupied by our most active players, and they're still as effective as anticipated, through ~9 wars in the last 1.5 ages. Adding other players in those slots would be worse.

I'll repeat myself: most kds have several A/T and A/M which take a ton of the 'activity' pressure off of the t/ms. You're running undeads? They keep up storms/greed, it's a waste of t/m mana. Running orcs? They keep up riots -- sure, the duration is short but it can just be refreshed again.

[Persain]

Zauper, your missing a few things. Based on what i know of your reputation you're a good player, put u in any roll and your going to b effective. Probably as effective people with 3-4 times your activity. Next the standard of "good" has fallen alot, a good attacker is one who can log in twice a day for 20 min and attack. As long as its when their army is home they attack and they spend as much stealth/mana as their wpa/tpa dictates you can win almost any war.

i'll repeat the intent of my last few posts. KDs as a whole will rarely have 25 capable players, puting more players in higher demanding roles like A/T and A/M to releave the activity demands of a pure t/m means u need more capable players....something most kds wont have. Couple that with the anti-t/m ops geting moved to pure attackers AND WT geting MASSIVELY buffed and hybrids arent even that strong compared to pure t/m & pure attacker, and having your most active players be in a role where their sole job is to attack every 12 hours isn't the best strategy for most kds.


FYI your cow comment, is only valid in "top" kds. In most kds a "cow" ends up being anyone whose unbreakable and on the bigger end of the kd. For example i ran elf "cow" 3-4 ages ago and still managed to get above 150 gc/acre/tick in war (like 600k gc/tick on 3500 acres) w/out ToG, and i was operating as a t/m all war. Cowing and being a big unbreakable t/m have merged into 1 role in the vast majority of the game. In this situation i agree that a cow SHOULDN'T be a mystic (thus casting MS) but it will happen in most kds. You run a real cow outside the top 10 and u dont get wars because competent kds just say screw u for seting up a real kd, we wont offer war if u're gonna be like that.

[Zauper]

i'll repeat the intent of my last few posts. KDs as a whole will rarely have 25 capable players, puting more players in higher demanding roles like A/T and A/M to releave the activity demands of a pure t/m means u need more capable players....something most kds wont have. Couple that with the anti-t/m ops geting moved to pure attackers AND WT geting MASSIVELY buffed and hybrids arent even that strong compared to pure t/m & pure attacker, and having your most active players be in a role where their sole job is to attack every 12 hours isn't the best strategy for most kds.

A lot of the warring kds I see from glancing at the charts are running high numbers of t/ms and/or A/Ms and A/T -- which means that no one t/m is really expected to have 24/7 activity to maintain MS. The 5 most warring kds -- in spite of a number of them having less than 25 provs -- average 8 provs/kd that are t/ms, a/m or a/t at a quick glance. Not including possible undead. The top 5 honor kingdoms average over 10. Beyond that, I'll say it again -- nothing in utopia is difficult. Playing A/M? Login, attack. Check bot or pimp or whatever for MS. MS provs without it or low duration. Logout. Takes maybe 25 minutes instead of 20. It doesn't take skill, honestly.

Shrug, we can agree to disagree here I think, since you're not likely to change my mind and I'm not likely to change yours. :P

FYI your cow comment, is only valid in "top" kds. In most kds a "cow" ends up being anyone whose unbreakable and on the bigger end of the kd. For example i ran elf "cow" 3-4 ages ago and still managed to get above 150 gc/acre/tick in war (like 600k gc/tick on 3500 acres) w/out ToG, and i was operating as a t/m all war. Cowing and being a big unbreakable t/m have merged into 1 role in the vast majority of the game. In this situation i agree that a cow SHOULDN'T be a mystic (thus casting MS) but it will happen in most kds. You run a real cow outside the top 10 and u dont get wars because competent kds just say screw u for seting up a real kd, we wont offer war if u're gonna be like that.

Last age we got 6 wars in half an age with 1-2 provs that were 2-3x the size of our next biggest provs (human cows). We've been running 2 cows this age, as well and we're not having so much difficulty finding war. The real issue people have is getting wars when it's clear to everyone that they will win. If you want to have a cow, you have to take on wars that aren't bashing some idiots that started playing the game 2 weeks ago. Beyond that, you win wars by getting safe provs that can farm acres. t/m cows can't do that. Attacker cows can.

[GotCha]

Ah yes, the infamous good SK monarch 'gotcha' is here to educate us all by telling us what the good kds know.

So being an attacker in a good kd doesn't involve having TPA, WPA, or DPA? This is news to me. I was unaware that only t/ms had to balance their population. I was also unaware that t/ms are never given orders. This is good to learn from you, infamous SK monarch gotcha.

If you look at some of the top kds, as far as I can tell, their most active players aren't in their t/m slots which would seem to disprove your assertion.

Considering im in one of the top 10 warring kd's this age, and on and off the past 6 ages.... And we do have our most active players in T/M slots....it would show that youre an idiot that doesnt know what he is talking about.... and also having talked to quite a few others that are in top warring kd's, that say the same thing...would also prove you dont know what youre talking about. Im glad you can look at a kd list and see who is their most active provs are. That is a trait i wish i had. Sorry if you get no more responses from me, but i just dont find you worth my time. Good day

[Zauper]

Considering im in one of the top 10 warring kd's this age, and on and off the past 6 ages.... And we do have our most active players in T/M slots....it would show that youre an idiot that doesnt know what he is talking about.... and also having talked to quite a few others that are in top warring kd's, that say the same thing...would also prove you dont know what youre talking about. Im glad you can look at a kd list and see who is their most active provs are. That is a trait i wish i had. Sorry if you get no more responses from me, but i just dont find you worth my time. Good day

Oh, it's the infamous 'top 10 warring kd' PLAYER, my mistake.

Here's a hint: I'm a leader in one of the top 5, and we don't have our most active players in t/m slots. I guess that means

youre an idiot that doesnt know what he is talking about

I also talk to a lot of people in top kingdoms, and they don't have their most active players (you know, what with me being familiar with many of the top players in uto) in the t/m slots. And I'm familiar with others from our wars with them this age or last age, and they didn't have their most active players in the t/m slots.

Tell you what, let's put it to the test.

We have Zauper in our kingdom name. Come war us. Let's see how your super active t/m fare against our inactive t/m.

[GotCha]

See you in a few days, bro. Stay where youre at.

[Zauper]

See you in a few days, bro. Stay where youre at.

We're not going to sit around waiting with our thumbs up our asses for an undetermined amount of time for an undetermined opponent to come wave us.

Until you actually do something, we'll be going about our business as usual.

[Parth]

GotCha, speaking candidly, I am no form intimidated or fearful of your actions as I have been involved in countless altercations which have ended less than favorably. In summation your argument denotes a lack of intellectual honesty on your part. It is my contention that this matter would best be solved with fisticuffs, I believe I will be victorious in this regard.

(This post is in favour of Zauper)

[silverfox]

see you in a few days, bro. Stay where youre at.

Rusty Full (xx:xx)

Let us hope your mouth ain't writing checks that your ass can't cash. :)

[flutterby]

Considering im in one of the top 10 warring kd's this age, and on and off the past 6 ages....

If you think you're going to impress THE zauper by being T10 this age and a couple of times over the last two years... I'm just going to sit back and giggle.
Zauper is one of THE most accomplished players in the game. But you know.. it's not my ass on the line is it... I learned my lesson when I harassed Zauper.


Side note: Parth.. your post > all of zauper's posts

[GotCha]

Parth. I have not asked you to fear me. In no way or form do IGAF if you are "scared" or "intimidated". And do what you have to do parth. Sorry for your false beliefs parth :( . TROLOLOL harder kid.


And i am not here to impress anyone flutter, ill leave that up to you. ;) ARe you not in Simians flutter? that makes me giggle. :D

[Korp]

The problem Zauper has that his experince is outdated, sure some of that is still useable but a lot isnt. Like for example playing a T/M in Playboys 3~ years ago isnt what we call "fresh" experince (dislaimer if he meant by a small off chance Polarbears it might be a different story)

[Persain]

Shrug, we can agree to disagree here I think, since you're not likely to change my mind and I'm not likely to change yours. :P

Fair enough, but...last comment i swear...simply login in and refreshing ops like u suggest does run into things like my last war. Every tick our halfer rogue on 8 raw tpa got 2 casts of expose thieves from the kd we warred. The only way he could do any ops was to try to keep his theif page open, when the tick hit have another page checking for it to finish then go back to his page and double click NS/Prop/whatever. We expected that while he was awake and able he would do that via cell, and the 8-10 hours he slept and while at work if he had meetings it'd mean he just wouldn't do any ops. We wouldn't require any attacker to be online more than 1 tick prior to hitting for tick gold....thats a lot less activity.

Last age we got 6 wars in half an age with 1-2 provs that were 2-3x the size of our next biggest provs (human cows). We've been running 2 cows this age, as well and we're not having so much difficulty finding war. The real issue people have is getting wars when it's clear to everyone that they will win. If you want to have a cow, you have to take on wars that aren't bashing some idiots that started playing the game 2 weeks ago. Beyond that, you win wars by getting safe provs that can farm acres. t/m cows can't do that. Attacker cows can.

Agree with you 100% here. I'd only like to point out Last age u picked fights 20v25 no?...the strippers comments fall outa that and you lost a few to kds who know how to beat your setup. Then how many wins do u have this age?...thats right a good amount. Keep running banks that obviously carry you and hovering in the top 15-40 and once the bad kds start falling out and better kds catch up our gonna stall or only find a kd with the exact same setup. It happened to us a couple of ages back, simians tried to do it with two BIG acre banks and couldn't find anything. Just good luck though.

The problem Zauper has that his experince is outdated, sure some of that is still useable but a lot isnt. Like for example playing a T/M in Playboys 3~ years ago isnt what we call "fresh" experince (dislaimer if he meant by a small off chance Polarbears it might be a different story)

Thus my comments about expectations and level of "skill" in previous posts. For some reason i get the feeling by "less active" he still means being online 8+hours a day, not litteraly only showing up being in irc and interacting with the kd for <1 hour per day and sometimes only 5 min/day. log in nw/mod off army home in 5.....posted attack, later. back in 12 hours, will update old sot's then. I've done that level of activity in my current kd and it works in war when chained.

[Forensick]

errr. we had one loss, to strippers last age.... and thoughts on that have been made, and it was 20 v 25, because we will war anyone.

No losses this age though.... 3/3, you wanna show us how your leet active t/ms can fair?

[Persain]

If you think you're going to impress THE zauper by being T10 this age and a couple of times over the last two years... I'm just going to sit back and giggle.
Zauper is one of THE most accomplished players in the game. But you know.. it's not my ass on the line is it... I learned my lesson when I harassed Zauper.

Side note: Parth.. your post > all of zauper's posts

Flutterby this comment is y i think zauper is geting the impression he can run less active t/ms than how most kds have been doing it (see top few waring kds of the past ages comment here...i point towards citadela01 via FS). When you really are just better than the kds you war u can get away with ALOT of missed hits, strange builds & other issues (not saying u have these zauper fyi). For example war 1 this age i was more than 2 hours late for EVERY attack i made and we still WALKED over a kd 120% our size pre war.

Same concept went into the war when u/ezzerland were in pixar and we beat u soundly. You guys are by no means un-knowledgeable about the game but u made made rookie mistakes based on subtle tweaks to the rules that have favored lower'ed overall activity on attackers. Had we had the same war 3 years prior u guys won.