Ghetto Cats vs Sanctuary

[Petrified]

its a human bank and they have halfers it should be able to be brought down via ops and MS given enough time. Different in context from having a bank that cant attack, few fireballs and hes useless. question is how much offense is left on cats orcs when the war continues on and more and more people are chained.

That bank is no joke. I was barely able to keep its peasants down during our war and I was in good NW range with 13-14m wpa. Since then, it has had a week to improve WPA (it is mystic...) and it grew in NW also. I'd imagine at this point it is not reasonably possible to cast much magic on it unless that player spent the week jerking it.

Thievery is probably possible, but oping into 2x+ of nw and I assume WTs, I can't see it being terribly effective.

[goodz]

Fireballing banks? NO WAI

they run highest wpa in Kd.. especially since cats didn't have banks so they don't really need to worry about sacrificing military. i wouldn't be surprised if sancs bank ends up on 40k acres :P

[jdorje]

"orcs outlast humans" or "clerics outlast warrior" are only limited statements.

Cats has several problems in this war. Perhaps the biggest to their long-term success is that orcs cannot slay dragons, and faeries and halflings are not terribly effective at it. By sending a dragon in hostile, we drained their supply of excess specs. The second dragon we sent in war took them over a day to slay, with remaining specs plus newly trained ones. By that time the third dragon was sent. By comparsion, humans with their flexibility can both slay and afford to retrain. So it's going to be very hard for cats to avoid a 1-way dragon, at least until they drop out of dragon range.

The second problem is a general lack of thieves and wizards on their kingdom. They waved us straight out of war, and though we were 2 days out of war we'd explored ~30k pool so they probably thought we were unprepared. We were unprepared, but so were they. Their orcs had ~2 tpa raw with between 3 and 15% wts. Some of their halflings were prepared - the biggest halfling rogue is a huge thorn in our side - but many had 2 raw tpa and no tds. Most of their halflings are clerics, not rogues. Our core had 4-5 raw tpa and tds, and our cows all had 5+ raw tpa with wts. So while we ns'd/fb'd down 2 of their highest offense province (mama bear and hate this kd), they haven't done all that much damage to our provinces and certainly not much at all to our 4 unbreakables. We now have 6 unbreakables counting the two smaller faeries, and other than the big rogue they struggle to op any of them.

The third problem is their armies were completely split at war start, both in terms of spread (they had a huge orc spread at war start, and it's gotten much worse) and attack time split. It is very hard to do effective chains with armies ranging from 400k to 2m nw that come home in random order. Of course, we gave up ~10k acres of letting them wave us into fortified to get this split. But it's made their chaining completely ineffective, while we've kept our armies sync'd and did massively damaging chain waves the first two waves.

The fourth problem, which is really insurmountable, is just the big cow. He has more wpa than anyone in their kingdom and comparable tpa. Plus 2x nw diff. He was undertrained at the start since I thought they'd wait for us to leave fortified, and hasn't gotten to train much in the first 3 days of the fight since all his money went into our 4 dragons. But he nonetheless gains 2-3k acres per day and I don't see how they're going to stop that. Fast forward 10 days and I'm pretty confident we can push that economy/offense to a 50% nw win even if our 5 other unbreakables somehow go down. And while they may technically have unbreakables (the 11k provinces have ~1m defense), a province 3x their size is going to be able to hit those guys eventually; they aren't untouchable.

January 6 of YR11 Rattata captured 391 acres of land from Hate this KD.
January 6 of YR11 Rattata captured 368 acres of land from Hate this KD.
January 6 of YR11 Rattata captured 347 acres of land from Hate this KD.
January 6 of YR11 Rattata captured 328 acres of land from Hate this KD.

[citadela01]

Citadel I'll bet you 5 credits that Sanc wins!

I wont take it. I dont care about 5 credits but I dont like loosing bets so I wont make more or less blind one.
I am not saying Cats have it bagged, far from it. I just feel if they can win ops battle in the top tier of KD they have a good shot at winning this and race/nwpa combo suggests they will be able to do it.
If Sanc core was race with offensive elites I'd take your bet, but against human elites they will have problems to both maintain orcs taking land and big halfers botomfeeding.

It will be interesting to see how Sanc proceedes once they deal with remaining 3 orc. It will be a big problem as I see it since their core will be forced to either oversend to hit in range and totally open themself to previously chained orcs or hit way down.
Most outside observers here seem to think its allrdy wrapped but from my perspective Sanc will loose momentum soon since they will run out off orcs to chain, I am eager to see how they react to so many of their provs stuck in nw range between allrdy chained orcs and all those ub wannabes siting on big def.

[Persain]

"orcs outlast humans" or "clerics outlast warrior" are only limited statements.

- the biggest halfling rogue is a huge thorn in our side - but many had 2 raw tpa and no tds. Most of their halflings are clerics, not rogues.
.
big cow. He has more wpa than anyone in their kingdom and comparable tpa

January 6 of YR11 Rattata captured 391 acres of land from Hate this KD.
January 6 of YR11 Rattata captured 368 acres of land from Hate this KD.
January 6 of YR11 Rattata captured 347 acres of land from Hate this KD.
January 6 of YR11 Rattata captured 328 acres of land from Hate this KD.

none of this got said initially, thus my commen. I did say IF your bank couldnt aid/attack then cats should win, i assumed what citadel did that those halfers were in decent shape tpa/wpa size. Looks like hes attacking fine and their halfers suck so congrats u added the info i needed to eat my words :P

[Elit]

If jdorje post in forum mean he is sure war is over.
Based to both kds pages Sanctuary is doing better.
So far its very hard to beat kd spend half age on 20 draft an pump sci when most from time Cats was almost x2 smaller and waring. Its another reason why you cant give button so easy on kd like Sanctuary.

[Elurin]

I only came back yday and kind of agree it was a bit too daring to give button into fortified vs pumped humans without having proper tpa :)

However dorje's analysis is quite one-sided, I'm not sure if it is propaganda to make us believe you're winning more than you are. As an example, why would we be "trying" to kill a drake vs a kd with a bank@250k peasants? We decided which way we wanted to kill it and executed, from what I understand.

That bank is the key issue here. The other humans have lost so many troops since start and even with all them peasants and tog'ing they can't sustain long term once they have to hit provs they can't QT without using elites. It's always easy to take away the orcs, where we have failed is in causing enough damage back during that period - by now there should be several very low def humans for our bottom to feed from. This will happen anyway, but the initial chaining looks pretty poor. Spread armies is not so much of an issue as several cutesillies deciding to get drunk for a week and miss hits and make many mistakes (such as exploring 4k acres same tic as waving you I hear, lol). Gains will turn back in our favour, and our economy is nearly as good as Sancs on our top, but not sure yet how we will deal with the bank.

[Falgun]

There is no way your top has same income as sanc top.They have much better sci and tog to go with it +you have dragon on you -10% income.If your economy was as good you would have sent another dragon immediatly just like sanc.This thing is enough to clarify your income at top is much lower than sanc.Even if those humans have low def your chained orcs have no def you cant hold onto the land u are taking from them i dont see how will gains turn in your favour

[Anri]

I dont think you can deal with the bank Elurin. Thats the problem. Let us know if you find a way.

[Palem]

Is Rattata sitting on a bunch of Mills?

[jdorje]

Mills are pro war building.

And, elurin is right! Obviously we have some problems too in war but I didn't say what they were!

[Palem]

...so yes?

I was actually asking, I wasn't questioning the legitimacy of banks sitting on mills lol

[Andr3w]

If he tell you, he would have to kill you ;)

[Elit]

Mills are pro war building.

And, elurin is right! Obviously we have some problems too in war but I didn't say what they were!

Think i know who is play this prov and its biggest curs for your kd. Get rid from him and never gave him acc again.

[Darkz Azn]

odd, im not a curs