Mods, Devs, and the Relationship w/ the Utopian Community

[Budlightyear]

The interactions between the developers and the player base is critical.

Most successful games and companies are not only successful because of the product that they produce but the connection they are able to create w/ their users. People like to feel like they are able to be a part of the community. And people like companies that at least seem like they're humble enough to be a part of that community, to associate with them on equal terms.

I love this game, but I'm not sure this is true of Utopia. And it's not a problem with the developers, at all. It's a problem with the way, and the people, who handle this game's PR.

Sometimes moderators abuse their authority to discredit and/or shoot down honest players who are only trying to help or contribute to the game. Is there any surprise there's a general feeling of callousness, of indifference, on the forums? And in the community, in general?

-----------------------------------------
Are mods ever re-evaluated after they become mods?

[Budlightyear]

A mod, or anyone associated with the Utopia team, should represent Utopia and the game itself, first and foremost. When people see someone is a mod, they associate what they say with Utopia, in general. A moderator should represent Utopia, as a whole, and the Developers of the game, in particular.

It shouldn't be a platform to shoot down others in order to express personal opinions...

[flutterby]

(yawn)

[Budlightyear]

(yawn)

Hmm?

I guess this has been said before, a lot, huh ;)

[Budlightyear]

BTW, I'm not posting this because I I've been suspended, or anything personal like that, whatsoever. I realize a lot of times people dumb it down to that.

It's just been something I've realized that's grown on me the more I've been on the forums.

[Elit]

Any comments about mods are forbidden in public so you can be sure this treat going to be close instant moment when mods see it.
Bishop is Utopia and Forum mod. Palem and DHaran are only forum mod. They doing it for free (or maybe for minimal pay). When they play game its normal to get in argue with other people and express his personal feeling like all rest. Its compromise from not have "full paid mods" who don't play game.
I don't see real problem with mods overall.

[flutterby]

EDIT: Completely misread...

[Pillz]

Most successful games and companies are not only successful because of the product that they produce but the connection they are able to create w/ their users. People like to feel like they are able to be a part of the community. And people like companies that at least seem like they're humble enough to be a part of that community, to associate with them on equal terms.

Nope. Many online community (webcomics, games, etc) have absolutely terrible PR and community interactions. They survive nontheless. EA and ctrl+alt+del are good examples. Both are ****-terrible, but they're successful none the less. Utopia may not be very successful, but it manages fine for the most part.

I love this game, but I'm not sure this is true of Utopia. And it's not a problem with the developers, at all. It's a problem with the way, and the people, who handle this game's PR.

How long have you been here? Swirve was originally managed solely by Mehul, and eventually by he and Blake. The two of them were responsible for all in-game actions taken in Earth and Utopia. Deletions were common, explanations were rare, reinstatements were virtually nonexistent and justice was often misplaced. When OMAC acquired Swirve we had to suffer through a variety of characters taking up this role. Bigfoot and Roisenor, Spirit Creeper, etc. None of whom were fun to deal with, or especially competent, and things were a mess for years. Especially early on when nobody was even sure who to speak to, and they themselves weren't sure how to enforce the rules. How we've got Bishop who does this for B&S. Bishop is perhaps the most fascist in-game moderator I've ever encountered, and he is a PR lapdog. He strictly enforces rules without regard for fairness or due process and he has pretty much perfected the "It's not a bug, it's just an unintended feature" line on the PR front. He probably spends too much time dealing with deletions and suspensions publically, considering his predecessors rarely bothered at all, even in the most controversial instances (NinjAs vs. LLD for example). While I am absolutely opposed to Bishop's methods, I believe he is doing a better job than most others in the in-game disciplinary department.

Swirve's forums were moderated by a bunch of unpaid volunteers, for both Earth and Utopia. Some were stricter than others, some played and some didn't, and some socialized more than others. Same case now. Many online communities select active/involved forum members to fulfill the role of moderator. Dharan and Palem are both active members who have shown the ability to respect rules and boundaries, or at least toe the line carefully. They've also been selected because they are deemed trust worthy enough to carry out their duties with as little bias as possible. So far they've done an excellent job. Dharan trolls far less these days, and he is a much kinder troll. He is also pretty decent at moderating things fairly, as he has no problem banning people whom he interacts with on these forums and IRC. Palem is a softy, though.

Sometimes moderators abuse their authority to discredit and/or shoot down honest players who are only trying to help or contribute to the game.

Source.

Is there any surprise there's a general feeling of callousness, of indifference, on the forums? And in the community, in general?

You obviously missed the Swirve forums entirely, didn't you? Utopia has always had this atmosphere. If it has worsened at all in the last 5 years it is only because of the exodus of users, both good and bad, and the general sense those of us remaining have of being the walking dead.

tldr; This thread is pointless. You do not substantiate any of your claims, all of which are vague to begin with. You also fail to take into account the communities 15 year history, which undermines your entire argument.

[Budlightyear]

Any comments about mods are forbidden in public so you can be sure this treat going to be close instant moment when mods see it.

I wasn't saying anything about any mod, specifically, at all. I was trying to start a discussion on the relationship between the creators of Utopia and the Community.

They doing it for free (or maybe for minimal pay). When they play game its normal to get in argue with other people and express his personal feeling like all rest. Its compromise from not have "full paid mods" who don't play game. I don't see real problem with mods overall.

Yeah, they aren't paid. I guess that is pretty important. But I don't think that means we shouldn't be able to talk about the dev-mod-community relationship.

[Budlightyear]

tldr; This thread is pointless. You do not substantiate any of your claims, all of which are vague to begin with. You also fail to take into account the communities 15 year history, which undermines your entire argument.

Alright, /endthread, guys, it's always been f'ed up so we're not allowed to talk about it.

[Budlightyear]

I'm not making any claims or trying to say anything, in particular. The reason it's so "vague", as someone pointed out as some sort of fault against me, is because I wanted people to talk about it and be able to give their honest opinions.

Not just to make my own.

[Pillz]

I didn't say that. I said that this thread is pointless because you've done nothing to "talk" about the issues. You've just made several vague statements without providing substance. That you have chosen to respond to my lengthy post with a simple dismissal, instead of addressing my arguments or amending your own is evidence to the fact that you're more interested in stirring **** then solving things.

[Budlightyear]

EDIT: Completely misread...

I lol'd.

The entire point of that post was how I'm trying to actually start a discussion and that I'm not just some random guy that just got suspended.

You replied:

"if you just got suspended, you should take it up with the mods."

Bahahahahahaha

[Budlightyear]

I didn't say that. I said that this thread is pointless because you've done nothing to "talk" about the issues. You've just made several vague statements without providing substance. That you have chosen to respond to my lengthy post with a simple dismissal, instead of addressing my arguments or amending your own is evidence to the fact that you're more interested in stirring **** then solving things.

Don't presume so much.

I made vague statements because I don't know, and I don't pretend to know, anything.

I made those statements to start a discussion, not to write a thesis.

Generally you start a useful discussion with vague points and hone in on something, rather than having some sort of thesis from the start.

[Budlightyear]

You've just made several vague statements without providing substance.

If it has worsened at all in the last 5 years it is only because of the exodus of users, both good and bad, and the general sense those of us remaining have of being the walking dead.

Source.

Please, I would actually like to to have a discussion here, not some sort of hypocritical logic competition.

How long have you been here? Swirve was originally managed solely by Mehul, and eventually by he and Blake. The two of them were responsible for all in-game actions taken in Earth and Utopia. Deletions were common, explanations were rare, reinstatements were virtually nonexistent and justice was often misplaced. When OMAC acquired Swirve we had to suffer through a variety of characters taking up this role. Bigfoot and Roisenor, Spirit Creeper, etc. None of whom were fun to deal with, or especially competent, and things were a mess for years. Especially early on when nobody was even sure who to speak to, and they themselves weren't sure how to enforce the rules. How we've got Bishop who does this for B&S. Bishop is perhaps the most fascist in-game moderator I've ever encountered, and he is a PR lapdog. He strictly enforces rules without regard for fairness or due process and he has pretty much perfected the "It's not a bug, it's just an unintended feature" line on the PR front. He probably spends too much time dealing with deletions and suspensions publically, considering his predecessors rarely bothered at all, even in the most controversial instances (NinjAs vs. LLD for example). While I am absolutely opposed to Bishop's methods, I believe he is doing a better job than most others in the in-game disciplinary department.

Swirve's forums were moderated by a bunch of unpaid volunteers, for both Earth and Utopia. Some were stricter than others, some played and some didn't, and some socialized more than others. Same case now. Many online communities select active/involved forum members to fulfill the role of moderator. Dharan and Palem are both active members who have shown the ability to respect rules and boundaries, or at least toe the line carefully. They've also been selected because they are deemed trust worthy enough to carry out their duties with as little bias as possible. So far they've done an excellent job. Dharan trolls far less these days, and he is a much kinder troll. He is also pretty decent at moderating things fairly, as he has no problem banning people whom he interacts with on these forums and IRC. Palem is a softy, though.

I haven't been on the forums but for the last 2 years or so. I didn't respond to this because I don't even know a frame of reference. Nevertheless, none of what you said precludes a discussion about the role of moderators in bridging the gap between the community and what I see as the overall good spirit of the developers.

They might not be paid, but neither are monarchs, or stewards, in this game. Nevertheless they're expected to hold up to certain standards, to do certain duties, and to act in certain ways by the people who give them that power and the people who they have power over.

Personally, I don't think any of the mods, in particular, are "bad."

However I think, in general, there is a failure to guide and nurture the community, in general, as a more "abstract" goal, and that this isn't due to any mod in particular, but rather that it is, and has been, a systemic issue.

instead of addressing my arguments or amending your own is evidence to the fact that you're more interested in stirring **** then solving things.

"Source."