Blackmail for cf's...

[Persain]

Eh...Palem, not sure it'd cost them crowns, make them look anyworse thean they are or even be a blatant multi hostile if HoH tried to notice. The spin factory of ABS could probably convince a few that HoH deal broke, and its not like any anti-X alliance is gonna work even if HoH is willing to champion it. Either way though as i see it ABS can do whatever they want and you're gonna have a hard time countering them because they are good. Its not like dealing with strippers where u can simply be bigger than them or better skill wise or even that you have 1/2 the kds in the 15-75 nw range that have had issues with them over the ages and "enough" kd willing to act.

I view intentional farm-out to a "friendly" ABS kd as good strategy, why fight back w/razes if im gonna lose acres anyway, rather feed a kd u like and be done in 24-48 hours. give it an age or two and someone will figure out how to deal with it. More than likely u'll just lose a lot of "real" notice deals, and some kds get cf's based on goodwill while others get date+48 hour deals as a way to avoid the whole thing..

[Palem]

Do you think that multi-hostiling will change how people already view Abs?

Yes. I think I have a mostly fair, unbiased opinion of Abs and their doings. I don't remember any instance in recent Utopia where Abs has truly powerplayed someone unprovoked. The MA thing was a big ordeal, but a large part of the blame falls on Elit. The only other recent Abs powerplaying thing that I can remember was Simians getting Doubled by Sanctuary after their triple notice.

If HoH notices Rage, there's no excuse for Abs to fall back on (assuming HoH doesn't have an EoA CF) for a clear multi hostile. HoH notices a kd who isn't hostile with anyone else. Fair is fair.

Eh...Palem, not sure it'd cost them crowns, make them look anyworse thean they are or even be a blatant multi hostile if HoH tried to notice. The spin factory of ABS could probably convince a few that HoH deal broke, and its not like any anti-X alliance is gonna work even if HoH is willing to champion it. Either way though as i see it ABS can do whatever they want and you're gonna have a hard time countering them because they are good. Its not like dealing with strippers where u can simply be bigger than them or better skill wise or even that you have 1/2 the kds in the 15-75 nw range that have had issues with them over the ages and "enough" kd willing to act.

I view intentional farm-out to a "friendly" ABS kd as good strategy, why fight back w/razes if im gonna lose acres anyway, rather feed a kd u like and be done in 24-48 hours. give it an age or two and someone will figure out how to deal with it. More than likely u'll just lose a lot of "real" notice deals, and some kds get cf's based on goodwill while others get date+48 hour deals as a way to avoid the whole thing..

Next age I wouldn't write off a serious anti-abs push.



On second thought, I've reconsidered HoH's answer.
Farm out to Simians while Anri is away.
Simians gets their crown. Anri gets no credit. Abs doesn't crown. Everybody wins :D

[AquaSeaFoam]

Just to clarify, Rage and HOH have an EOA cf, however that could be changed if both sides agreed. Rage has offered to war HOH if they wanted but HOH is not interested. We don't blame them for not wanting to fight since we have the stronger late age setup and it wouldn't be fair.

[Persain]

LoL @ giving Anri-less simians a win.

Yea Palem there's a serious anti-abs push but it'll be gone in an age or two, with maybe an alliance war going onto the books. Thing is there's no way for an alliance to last as anti-X because you define yourself on being against X. What do u do once u win? do it again, and again? What if u lose try again, just to lose again? Without game mechanisms changes to make war after war after war the best way to crown theres not gonna be a lasting change in top play. The kds that are capable of beating ABS like PewPew (vulture whatever that kind a stuff is fun) just done enjoy pump mode even if its as the best way to win.


BTW you tell me there’s going to be an alliance war next age I sign my kd up ..but that’s not really the point right. The point is several kds found out how to counter the “I shall feed on you” strategy by saying well “I shall farm out by hitting your ally” or “my cf with your ally says they get equal acres” and HoH is pissy. Well all I have to say is good, only took 5-6 ages of almost no race changes (5->4 spec didn’t drastically alter the races) for a new top “meta” to form and I laugh at its op-ness.

[fuzzy|]

this is all new to people?

[MiKeR]

Kygal you can always wd the mutal cf! Why dont our 2 kds war to decide the age :P

[Elit]

The MA thing was a big ordeal, but a large part of the blame falls on Elit. The only other recent Abs powerplaying thing that I can remember was Simians getting Doubled by Sanctuary after their triple notice.

Its complete wrong view Palem. None forced Havoc to wave in very clear active hostile. If they wanted to get his 1vs1 war with us was easy to tell sanctuary to stay away from us or propose CF from us. There is huge difference if Sanctuary asked for CF and we refuse it for wave.
After Sanctuary robed from us we dont had other choice from wave them. After one from our cow loss all his gold there is no way for him to get ready for Havoc in 48h when Sanctuary can keep rob him/us same time. Sanctuary robed from our core provinces with tpa+cs too. Wave on Sanctuary was correct move and i will make same again if situation is same.

In this situation is main wrong Havoc. Sanctuary is wrong for coordinate his double hostile. If Sanctuary made "mistake" with start mess with us they was free to propose proper terms so we can CF them or just war us again. All this 12h no hits (when we had 48h full hostile+dragon+cow hits+attack time is over 12h!!!) and get cf propose+instant CF break from Havoc+ dragon+hit for less 30 sec show clear its was arranged in advance from both kds.
There is no excuse for all this ****s. Only goodz get credits for fair admit it and dont give BS excuses.

[PhoenixScorpion]

LoL @ giving Anri-less simians a win.

Yea Palem there's a serious anti-abs push but it'll be gone in an age or two, with maybe an alliance war going onto the books. Thing is there's no way for an alliance to last as anti-X because you define yourself on being against X. What do u do once u win? do it again, and again? What if u lose try again, just to lose again? Without game mechanisms changes to make war after war after war the best way to crown theres not gonna be a lasting change in top play. The kds that are capable of beating ABS like PewPew (vulture whatever that kind a stuff is fun) just done enjoy pump mode even if its as the best way to win.


BTW you tell me there’s going to be an alliance war next age I sign my kd up ..but that’s not really the point right. The point is several kds found out how to counter the “I shall feed on you” strategy by saying well “I shall farm out by hitting your ally” or “my cf with your ally says they get equal acres” and HoH is pissy. Well all I have to say is good, only took 5-6 ages of almost no race changes (5->4 spec didn’t drastically alter the races) for a new top “meta” to form and I laugh at its op-ness.

That would require Absalom losing an AWAR. Which has yet to happen...

[Persain]

sry to derail the thread from blackmails...but this is in the same vein

That would require Absalom losing an AWAR. Which has yet to happen...

The only real way to "win against ABS would be to go 2v1/kd with 1 extra float. Lets say HoH leads the charge next age, know 6 other kds willing to spend multiple ages to beat down abs till it disbands. At least 2 of those kds have to be able to whore early age and not get horribly owned even w/support in the oop war. Requirements include no desire to crown, no desire for a fair 1v1 fight, multiple age commitment to bashing "ABS". This means defining who abs is..is it just the leaders right now...if they split up u may need to do the same for more kds to help you? Point is u got 6 other kds+hoh willing to do that or is it more fun to whine on the forums that a new "strategy" has formed that wont let people bottom feed very hard. I'd rather see every kd retal all randoms+ threaten to farm out next age and see what happens.

For what its worth this threatening to farm out is a cop-out way to not give up acres, it is NOT hard to get an EOA CF from w/out giving acres if you kd isnt gonna be in competition for top 5. There are much better ways to deal w/kds who just want a few acres.

[Elit]

2) Again, when we forced AMA to cf Rage before we would give them a cf.

I'm not aware of this, but if it is the case it did not work at all since we had to give AMA 2 free waves and they forced us into an eoa NAP that we didn't want when they caught us out of our beastblood war.

ASF is correct there. HoH had noting with AMA decision to CF Rage. I know Proteus propose from HoH to not extend his CF deal with AMA till we CF Rage but this never was problem for me. Our deal with HoH wen you propose early extend CF for not get vulture after your second war is: HoH will extend CF with AMA if we propose it before our war with Sanctuary. So HoH cant refuse it, because its part from our last deal terms.

I just let Proteus think he can stop HoH from CF us and when he got CF from AMA i made Proteus ask HoH for extend his CF with AMA so he can feel important ;)

[THEjester]

If they get multi-hostiled they'll really have something to start a forum thread to vent about. I don't think Abs could afford to look that bad. The MA debacle was bad enough, but blatantly multi-hostiling your own ally/former ally would unquestionably put Abs as the bottom of the barrel in every utopians eyes. It would most definitely cost them crowns.

I think HoH could beat Rage if they actually warred, but it was just a 2 day slugfest and not a real war, Rage would definitely win out.

ABS would have to work hard to be the bottom of the barrel people don't like them and haven't for as long as i have played uto that is because people are jealous and always hate the bigger guys. but HOH plays dirty and so that crown you own the bottom of the barrel and deserve that title!

[Palem]

Yea Palem there's a serious anti-abs push but it'll be gone in an age or two, with maybe an alliance war going onto the books. Thing is there's no way for an alliance to last as anti-X because you define yourself on being against X. What do u do once u win? do it again, and again? What if u lose try again, just to lose again? Without game mechanisms changes to make war after war after war the best way to crown theres not gonna be a lasting change in top play. The kds that are capable of beating ABS like PewPew (vulture whatever that kind a stuff is fun) just done enjoy pump mode even if its as the best way to win.

An anti-abs alliance would provide the same service that the abs alliance currently serves. Keep others away from crown contention and put your own kds in position to crown. It's existence or usefulness is only slightly connected with abs existence. If say abs were to dissolve, the alliance itself could continue to exist in the same bane that abs exists without any other competition.

[StratOcastle]

What's wrong with a couple of superpowers? There are more than a few reasons to have more alliances, even just for recruiting farms. players get tired, bored, a life. Hell, run gladiator kingdoms for alliance pleasure.
The problem appears to be intelligent people making deals they can't count on working as perceived. This is just small print lawyer business which I think the main players have admitted. A kingdoms got to know it's limits. If you knew 10 weeks ago that you'd be outgunned today you wouldn't be wishing for a time machine. I'm not trying to be rude, just relax with decisions made. I have to respect the vision of said kingdom to finish in this position of strength and not having to war.

[jamin]

Mansoor's notice expired the same time ours did. We wanted to wave SWEA before we knew you did as well. When we found out this is when the topic of "dibs" came out, because contrary to what you say, Abs does call dibs and we usually respect it. The 2nd fight between havoc and ama was a "dibs" rule. The fight between Cats and Sanc was a "dibs" rule. Those were all kds in range that we had considered and talked about waving at the time when you guys called dibs on them. I know this for a fact, you cannot convince me otherwise.

The legacy thing I still find your attempt at plausible deniability quite funny as you say it was "our choice".
Legacy: Hit us and we farm out to Rage
Rage: We wouldn't do that
Us: Okay well let's CF Legacy since we don't have much of a choice...
Rage 2 weeks later: Waves Legacy for "different reasons"

How is that any different from you saying to MW "Yep we will CF you as long as the other Abs/HoH doesn't hit you...if they do you owe us tons of acres". Then we just later wave them and if you guys try to claim your acres they just raze retal you and say "Oh we do want to give you your acres, but what we're doing now is 2 weeks later and for different reasons".

PS to all: We have EoA NAP with Abs so we will not be waving any Abs kd. Rage did offer us to war but as ASF said that would not be fair as they are far more outpumped than we are. Rage has definitely had an easier age than we have and have had time to pump as Sages. We were specifically asked not to go Sage this age from Abs because we did it last time and they didn't want to keep "fighting our battles for us", so we didn't go Sage and then after that we found out Rage did...hmmmm interesting. Anyway, on side note, people saying just wave/beat Rage are kind of Retarded as it is a war we would be guaranteed to lose and just farm out giving Rage the clear win.

May the best kd win.

[flutterby]

An anti-abs alliance would provide the same service that the abs alliance currently serves. Keep others away from crown contention and put your own kds in position to crown. It's existence or usefulness is only slightly connected with abs existence. If say abs were to dissolve, the alliance itself could continue to exist in the same bane that abs exists without any other competition.

How many 'anti-abs' alliances have tried and failed? And if abs were to dissolve how would this 'anti-abs' alliance not become the new 'abs'?