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Thread: Hostile, Notices, and top kd drama

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezzerland View Post
    It's easy to claim there is an ulterior motive. It's realistically easy to prove that wrong. I dunno what reputation you've heard about me, but this is the first time I can recall ever being referred to as a self-serving player.

    The kingdom I play for (Monument) is not a crown contending kingdom. They've not interest in crowning. They enjoy war, and generally having fun. They have their ups and downs, but they are a good lot of people. I actually have more to lose than gain by creating this thread, because I'm calling out the people that it does effect (My kingdom and I are not affected by this at all) to better their behavior. If they don't care to, I can't change their opinions. They'll act as retarded as they choose. The best ulterior motive I can come up with is, at least in the future I'll be able to reference this thread every time they come whining about all this lame **** that they are too lame to address.

    Edit- Say what's on your mind btw. I have 0 problems being called anything by anyone. I'm not a problematic person. I don't get upset/offended very often or very easily. I'm a logical person.

    I wasn't actually talking about in-game motive, moreso it is a social community-based ulterior motive that I'd suggest here. By your own admission, yourself and your kingdom are not affected by the subject matter of this topic. So the question I mean to ask then, is... what are *you* doing bringing it up, as opposed to someone directly involved? What is your ulterior motive if yourself or your kingdom are not affected by the top-game?

    Essentially... why do you care?

    I would suggest a social motive, a sort of image-based motive. Imagine if this attempt of yours actually works, and you change the way the top game is played, wouldn't your community status be enhanced even more? It's already pretty solid, you're kind of a big deal around these parts, but taking on a topic outside of your area of influence and succeeding to create change, that would just add to your social status. It's no secret that social status seekers like to create situations where they can gain greater standing in the community. This feels like that.

    I would equate you maybe to Marc Antony and his famous speech after the murder of Caesar. It's all about rhetoric, modes of persuasion, and how to persuade a crowd towards your stance with cleverly crafted wordage and all that, what with communicative skills being something you're clearly very good at. You've got a crowd of squabbling folks who have different opinions on the topic, so you get up on the podium and ask the Utopian top-game to lend you their ears. Then you go about weaving your words in an attempt to affect change in an area of the game that doesn't impact you and shouldn't really matter to you, with what one can only assume is the need for social status enhancement. (Granted, Marc Antony wanted to rule instead of Brutus, and you probably don't want to rule the top-game, so that's where the comparison obviously splits.)


    ***

    But to your original post, I would respond with this:

    Let the top-game play however they want. They aren't the only section of the Utopian community that matters, and you aren't a part of their section nor does their section impact the region of the game that yourself and your kingdom prefer to play in.

    Let them point fingers, lay blame, cry foul, make accusations, assume motives, deliver threats, craft excuses, issue complaints, publicize betrayals, attempt regulation, exercise leverage, insinuate misbehavior... the list goes on. Let them do it all, in their own corner of the game. It provides entertainment for the rest of us, but very little actual impact on the rest of the game. Kingdoms in the middle and bottom rarely partake in all this "noticing" crap and obsession with the definition of "hostile" and so forth.

    Frankly, my own personal opinion is that it takes two parties to be in a conflict (or "hostile" as it is called), and if one party tries to back out (offers a ceasefire) then the conflict ("hostile") is over. But having been in the middle most of my Utopian career, why do I care? Why would I try to affect the top-game if it doesn't affect me?

    And so then why, as well, would you?

  2. #62
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    Chivalry. The act of selflessness. Oftentimes morally inept can't grasp the tenants of civilizations desire for justice. My personal acts are for me to live with and I prefer to act in a manner of mutual respect. This is personally. My concept of the game is that all is fair and thus don't hold others to this standard other than enforcing mutual respect if possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
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  3. #63
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    How about, because I care about the game? I realistically know and accept most people wont give a ****. That's their prerogative.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezzerland View Post
    How about, because I care about the game? I realistically know and accept most people wont give a ****. That's their prerogative.
    If you care about the game, why try to affect change in only 10% of it? If you accept most people won't give a poop, why try? If you are a logical person, would not the logical approach be silence? Your approach is then based on hope, which is based on emotion, not logic. By starting this topic, you are behaving in a contrary manner to the kind of person you say you are. So, this is why I say, there is an ulterior motive that is unrelated to caring about the game.

    If you care about the game, fight for change where the other 90% of the player base plays, where you can improve the quality of experience for the most players. This topic is pointless beyond social satisfaction. You can't say you care about a game while only fighting for change among a small percentage of the player base. Aware folks just won't buy it, which all comes back to having motives beyond the surface presentation.

  5. #65
    News Correspondent flutterby's Avatar
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    Are you serious? I think you should get a clue. How many people fight for the game and for the changes that need to be made? Does that mean that they're doing it for the wrong reasons? Or is it because those reasons are acceptable to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by VT2
    I should get a medal for all the common sense I highlight on a daily basis.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <Bishop> I don't dislike Ezzerland
    <Bishop> We are just incompatible

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    <~Palem> I read that as "snuffleupegas gropes Palem" twice lol

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  6. #66
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    I don't think you have any grasp at all on the problem I'm bringing up. The 10% that doesn't care doesn't give a **** about the game, but they're the 10% that are needed most.

  7. #67
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    Honestly, if everyone could adopt dorje's "dont be a dick" and go from there we should be good. Problem is, with a game so small, everyone tends to hold grudges from the past. Take for example Proteus; Yes, he was wronged, but that was almost 10 ages ago, and he still won't let it go. Using something that long ago to justify present and future actions will always stray from "dont be a dick".

    What needs to happen is for someone to be a bigger man and allow everyone to restart on a clean slate. But it's tough because the scorpion will always inevitably sting the frog, no matter how many tries we give it a go. Nevertheless, it doesnt help when the most powerful alliance is essentially promoting dickish behaviour. They can chalk it up to defensive reasons or for revenge. However, lets call a spade, a spade; everyone wants cheap and easy acres, especially in such a small diluted game.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realest View Post
    Honestly, if everyone could adopt dorje's "dont be a dick" and go from there we should be good. Problem is, with a game so small, everyone tends to hold grudges from the past. Take for example Proteus; Yes, he was wronged, but that was almost 10 ages ago, and he still won't let it go. Using something that long ago to justify present and future actions will always stray from "dont be a dick".

    What needs to happen is for someone to be a bigger man and allow everyone to restart on a clean slate. But it's tough because the scorpion will always inevitably sting the frog, no matter how many tries we give it a go. Nevertheless, it doesnt help when the most powerful alliance is essentially promoting dickish behaviour. They can chalk it up to defensive reasons or for revenge. However, lets call a spade, a spade; everyone wants cheap and easy acres, especially in such a small diluted game.
    This.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutterby View Post
    When it's part of your agreement that you do not notice during EoWcf, than you shouldn't notice during EoWcf. What's the point of having the agreement if you can't follow what's stipulated in it?
    Dealing breaking does not fall into the realm of things I don't think are wrong.

    You won't find me breaking deals.

  10. #70
    News Correspondent flutterby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    You won't find me breaking deals.
    That's cause you're just awesome like that... and stop being so busy and come on IRC!!
    Quote Originally Posted by VT2
    I should get a medal for all the common sense I highlight on a daily basis.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <Bishop> I don't dislike Ezzerland
    <Bishop> We are just incompatible

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <~Palem> I read that as "snuffleupegas gropes Palem" twice lol

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  11. #71
    Forum Fanatic Elldallan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realest View Post
    Honestly, if everyone could adopt dorje's "dont be a dick" and go from there we should be good. Problem is, with a game so small, everyone tends to hold grudges from the past. Take for example Proteus; Yes, he was wronged, but that was almost 10 ages ago, and he still won't let it go. Using something that long ago to justify present and future actions will always stray from "dont be a dick".

    What needs to happen is for someone to be a bigger man and allow everyone to restart on a clean slate. But it's tough because the scorpion will always inevitably sting the frog, no matter how many tries we give it a go. Nevertheless, it doesnt help when the most powerful alliance is essentially promoting dickish behaviour. They can chalk it up to defensive reasons or for revenge. However, lets call a spade, a spade; everyone wants cheap and easy acres, especially in such a small diluted game.
    Except that it's dorje so his "don't be a dick" is like Google's "don't be evil", it's all just words on a paper which no one takes seriously, and thys without any value whatsoever.
    The problem with letting the old crap die and be forgotten is that new crap is continuously spawned every single age. So everyone will always have some reason to be pissed and to conveniently pull out of a dark corner when they need to justify whatever shady/foul situation they put themselves in.

    The problem is that the most powerful alliance don't have an effective counterweight.And as long as that remains true they will be able to get away with almost whatever dickish moves they can come up with.
    And since those dickish moves usually means that they get ahead of the competition they will no doubt keep doing them until a "Cold War terror balance" has been established.

  12. #72
    Post Demon UnknownGhost's Avatar
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    There will never be a solid alliance to counter Absalom. Look at the top kingdoms other than Absalom. Vast majority of them didn't exist a year ago and most likely won't exist a year from now. Absalom has had a solid presence for a very long time with kingdoms like Rage and Sanctuary rich with history not to mention top notch leadership.
    #sinners <---click to join

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elldallan View Post
    Except that it's dorje so his "don't be a dick" is like Google's "don't be evil", it's all just words on a paper which no one takes seriously, and thys without any value whatsoever.
    The problem with letting the old crap die and be forgotten is that new crap is continuously spawned every single age. So everyone will always have some reason to be pissed and to conveniently pull out of a dark corner when they need to justify whatever shady/foul situation they put themselves in.

    The problem is that the most powerful alliance don't have an effective counterweight.And as long as that remains true they will be able to get away with almost whatever dickish moves they can come up with.
    And since those dickish moves usually means that they get ahead of the competition they will no doubt keep doing them until a "Cold War terror balance" has been established.
    People always say you need a counter alliance to beat Absalom, and that's simply not true. It's an easy cop out but the issues are deeper than that. For example, when I played, only CGG and ZZ were competent to ride up there with me. 1-7 was often the 5 Absalom and us 2. You had other neutral/friendly kds rounding out the top 10, but they were not in viable range to be a threat.

    The problem is that since the retirement/disbanding of many solo kds and the assimilation of their leaders and players into Absalom kds, the skill level to combat Absalom has fallen below competitive levels. It's not about rounding out more kingdoms than Absalom; quantity of kds is only needed when you lack skill (ie, given enough monkeys, you are bound to get it right).

    I agree dorje and Proteus are certainly part of the problem, but there is also no alternative for them to take. If your target decides to drop 50 bucks to reset themselves to 400 acres, what choice do you really have? There's no incentive for Absalom to promote fairplay, insofar that non-abs kd do not want to make up either.

    I propose that Proteus needs to stop being a little girl and move forward. Dorje needs to get off the rag and stop complaining that everyone is abusing a bug or conspiring some great evil. ASF should develop some brevity in his posts. In return, non Absalom kingdoms should learn some humility; eat a wave when you are outplayed, and don't needlessly drag out conflicts out of spite. "Warring kds" need to respect high level play and stop stealing gold and randoming our stragglers. Ghettos can ghetto and we don't give a **** about you after the first 2 weeks. By all means, explore as hard as you can during that time though.

    As far as Im concerned, a notice is not hostile. When a page says hostile, that is hostile. Some exceptions apply (eg. cow battles and nr1 kd vs nr2/3 kds EoA fights). Calling dibs is nice, but doesn't mean much. If a kingdom "dodges", well, that's the trade off of installing notice CFs. However, when that "dodge conflict ends", I am going to hit you immediately. Ghetto kds/cows can approach me at anytime for EoA CFs provided you dont random me or steal my **** before you ask. That is how I expect to play in this upcoming age and I believe my approach is more than fair.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by flutterby View Post
    You know what I'm sick and tired of...... notices and NAPS and CF's in the top. Where the hell did this **** come from? Granted, I've said this before... it's ruining the game.
    Lol, yeah. One of the reasons why I don't play. War notice, hostile notice, barbie dolls and flower power. It's a sissy game these days. :)


    And yes, you need an alliance to counter absalom if you are not NAP'ed or allied with them. Heroes of Absalom would NEVER have won if they hadn't sent their integrity and honour on the boat down the river and joined Absalom.
    Last edited by stoffi; 03-06-2013 at 08:00.
    ABS vs Rangers


  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoffi View Post
    Lol, yeah. One of the reasons why I don't play. War notice, hostile notice, barbie dolls and flower power. It's a sissy game these days. :)
    You forgot patty cake ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by VT2
    I should get a medal for all the common sense I highlight on a daily basis.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <Bishop> I don't dislike Ezzerland
    <Bishop> We are just incompatible

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    <~Palem> I read that as "snuffleupegas gropes Palem" twice lol

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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