Hostile, Notices, and top kd drama

[Elldallan]

People always say you need a counter alliance to beat Absalom, and that's simply not true. It's an easy cop out but the issues are deeper than that. For example, when I played, only CGG and ZZ were competent to ride up there with me. 1-7 was often the 5 Absalom and us 2. You had other neutral/friendly kds rounding out the top 10, but they were not in viable range to be a threat.

Agreed, I'm not saying you need a counter alliance. What I meant is that you do need some support to rely on even if that is just you and 1 more kd that is infinitely better than just you yourself.

The problem is that since the retirement/disbanding of many solo kds and the assimilation of their leaders and players into Absalom kds, the skill level to combat Absalom has fallen below competitive levels. It's not about rounding out more kingdoms than Absalom; quantity of kds is only needed when you lack skill (ie, given enough monkeys, you are bound to get it right).

Agreed, on all points.

I agree dorje and Proteus are certainly part of the problem, but there is also no alternative for them to take. If your target decides to drop 50 bucks to reset themselves to 400 acres, what choice do you really have? There's no incentive for Absalom to promote fairplay, insofar that non-abs kd do not want to make up either.

I think it's the other way around, the opposition sees no reason to play fairly because the monolith that is Abs does not. age upon age Abs does shady things, occasionally really obvious shady things like 2v1's and that sorta things, other times it's just using clever words when making deals and then making up their own interpretation of that deal that is usually very far from the spirit in which it was made. What pewpew did was simply twisting the words, according to whats posted the deal said button had to be pressed after x hours, pewpew made it so that there was no button to press and thus avoided having to go through with it and farm out to Rage.

Absalom ought to think carefully over why someone is willing to spend 50 bucks just to spite them. It's not a whole lot of money but personally I would have about a million things I'd rather spend it on.

I propose that Proteus needs to stop being a little girl and move forward. Dorje needs to get off the rag and stop complaining that everyone is abusing a bug or conspiring some great evil. ASF should develop some brevity in his posts. In return, non Absalom kingdoms should learn some humility; eat a wave when you are outplayed, and don't needlessly drag out conflicts out of spite. "Warring kds" need to respect high level play and stop stealing gold and randoming our stragglers. Ghettos can ghetto and we don't give a **** about you after the first 2 weeks. By all means, explore as hard as you can during that time though.

I do agree on your opinions on dorje, proteus and asf. Tho when it comes to needlessly dragging out conflicts buth sides are quite good at that when it's convenient. Abs kd's who are "out of the race" will quite often go out and try to block the opposition as much and long as possible. The gold stealing would not be a problem if the norm wasn't to pump most of the age at 20% draft, it would be better to change that norm in my opinion and the stealing would go away when it stops being ridiculously easy because topkd cows are running 0 thieves. If cows are running 0 thieves I think it's a healthy expression that the community is stealing as much gc as they can get away with and I'd like to see it happen more often.

As far as Im concerned, a notice is not hostile. When a page says hostile, that is hostile. Some exceptions apply (eg. cow battles and nr1 kd vs nr2/3 kds EoA fights). Calling dibs is nice, but doesn't mean much. If a kingdom "dodges", well, that's the trade off of installing notice CFs. However, when that "dodge conflict ends", I am going to hit you immediately. Ghetto kds/cows can approach me at anytime for EoA CFs provided you dont random me or steal my **** before you ask. That is how I expect to play in this upcoming age and I believe my approach is more than fair.

I agree with most of that, there are some obvious exceptions to the hostile is when the page says hostile, hostiles that have gone without events for several days comes to mind as does the situation of PB's vs TFC, for quite a bit of that tfc didn't hit much and instead only traded ops, and since ops doesn't push the meter that will never show up as hostile.

You know what I'm sick and tired of...... notices and NAPS and CF's in the top. Where the hell did this **** come from? Granted, I've said this before... it's ruining the game.

They came about because they're usually mutually beneficial to all the parties involved, previously there used to be too many kd's/alliances around that you could never have naps with everybody so eventually things would blossom up, but nowadays the top is so small that it's easy to arrange a few beneficial Naps which lets you not having to worry about being backstabbed while pumping at 20% draft.

Also, when Anri gave notice to 3 kingdoms at once and Abs... were so 'lame' to have all 3 kingdoms hit him... this was NOT hostile. It was merely, in my opinion, clearing 'relations. Not like any of this is going to change anytime soon....

Noticing 3 kd's at the same time is silly, I basically interpret a notice as a declaration that you intend to fight, so if you notice 3 kd's you will probably be on the receiving end of 3 waves when they run out. Top kd's make CF's and NAPs precicely to avoid having uncertain relations(as you cannot pump when there is somone who could wave you at the tip of a hat), so when you break them either you or the target will initiate a fight to return to status quo.
I would think Abs giving notice from 3 kd's at the same time would be extremely lame but if you send the notice to 3 abs kd's you're putting yourself in a 3v1 intentionally.

[Persain]

People always say you need a counter alliance to beat Absalom, and that's simply not true. It's an easy cop out but the issues are deeper than that. For example, when I played, only CGG and ZZ were competent to ride up there with me. 1-7 was often the 5 Absalom and us 2. You had other neutral/friendly kds rounding out the top 10, but they were not in viable range to be a threat.

You need an counter alliance to beat Abs if your kd is not as good as they are as a whole. Every KD has its strengths and weaknesses, abs works because together they balance out each other. Perfect examples would be elit this age..another skilled leader could have easily talked him through the need to cf sanc post war. Getting an alliance would of helped that kd or a kd like simians who just cant keep up in evenly matched wars.

Ghetto kds/cows can approach me at anytime for EoA CFs provided you dont random me or steal my **** before you ask. That is how I expect to play in this upcoming age and I believe my approach is more than fair.

This approach is a good one as a "new" leader in a top kd but when u have history or say things like

"Warring kds" need to respect high level play ....we don't give a **** about you

its hard for people to let things go as they know your real personality and then dont want to give u a reasonable deal. I mean if i were Proteus why would i want to deal with elit again after what happened 10 ages ago....and thats the stuff that causes drama. I mean if i hold a grudge or dislike someone my definition of "Hostile"and my willingness to let things slide is going to change drastically. Its a big reason why you cant define things like
"1) What is a hostile?
2) What is the proper way/time to serve notice."

[Elldallan]

You need an counter alliance to beat Abs if your kd is not as good as they are as a whole. Every KD has its strengths and weaknesses, abs works because together they balance out each other. Perfect examples would be elit this age..another skilled leader could have easily talked him through the need to cf sanc post war. Getting an alliance would of helped that kd or a kd like simians who just cant keep up in evenly matched wars.

Well if Abs was really honest about the fairness and 1v1 talk ASF has been filling the forum with Elit shouldn't have needed to cf Sanct. But yes he could have played it safe and assumed that Abs would be bullying bastards like usual, the question is would Sanct have accepted a CF? I have my doubts since it all seemed a little too well orchestrated and considering ASF got involved almost immediately instead of goodz/dorje who are the leaders of the two kingdoms involved. I also seriously doubt Sanct would have stopped hitting unless pewpew had conveniently noticed Sanct, I guess Elit do have some friends, or pewpew just wanted to spite Abs.

Elit was probably planning on farming Sanct later in the age and I'd assume that's why he chose not to cf immediately, and obviously Abs wouldn't have accepted a non eoa cf at that point. Havoc did the strategically smart thing and waved MA into an active hostile because otherwise the acres MA just explored would probably have made the upcoming war even more unwinnable for Havoc, but the option Havoc chose was also the lame and dirty move and it puts a lie to all the Abs flowery talk about fairness and 1v1(which comes as no surprise really).

[Realest]

You need an counter alliance to beat Abs if your kd is not as good as they are as a whole. Every KD has its strengths and weaknesses, abs works because together they balance out each other.

Have you tried? No, you haven't, so stop talking about something you clearly know nothing about. Theorycraft is nothing close to the real thing, otherwise we can just sim out the ages somewhere instead of playing them. Absalom kingdoms hate each other more than you realize, and they surely arent banding together to cover weaknesses. They are only together because the optimal strategy calls for their congregation - no more, no less. If you told Proteus that the best way to win was to team up with you, he would exit Absalom immediately. These are just facts, and to believe otherwise is naive.

Perfect examples would be elit this age..another skilled leader could have easily talked him through the need to cf sanc post war.

You clearly have never played with Elit (he is more stubborn than a bull). Dirty is hands down the most skilled player in this game in the past 15 or so ages and he could not talk him down, so it's clearly not about the skill of the co-leader. Utopia, while a math game, also has a human element. With the benefit of hindsight, of course it is easy to say. Hell, even with a bit of logic, you could argue we should have saw it coming too - and a lot of people did. But if your argument is that Elit should have been convinced, then you don't know him very well.

Getting an alliance would of helped that kd or a kd like simians who just cant keep up in evenly matched wars.

would HAVE. if you're going to try and pretend to sound intelligent, don't spell like an infantile retard. And no, if that's your argument, KLA, HaJ, NA, etc. should have been more useful than they are. No amount of umbrella covers up the lack of individual ability.

This approach is a good one as a "new" leader in a top kd but when u have history or say things like

And if they don't CF me, no skin off my back. Doesn't affect me one bit. I have no idea how long you have been playing, I hope you realize I have won ages after suffering a multi attack of 400+ provinces. Educate yourself before you hate.

its hard for people to let things go as they know your real personality and then dont want to give u a reasonable deal. I mean if i were Proteus why would i want to deal with elit again after what happened 10 ages ago....and thats the stuff that causes drama. I mean if i hold a grudge or dislike someone my definition of "Hostile"and my willingness to let things slide is going to change drastically. Its a big reason why you cant define things like
"1) What is a hostile?
2) What is the proper way/time to serve notice."

And that is why I propose we need to put these things aside and move forward. The game is not going do it for you if people don't be a bigger man. USA is not going to stop importing German and Japanese products because of something that happened almost 70 years ago. In utopia time, 8 ages of 12~ years each is over a century - so just let it go.

Bottom line, there are always excuses to play lame and to say so otherwise is folly. Something as simple as Proteus made fun of me in his video orders 20 ages ago could be justification to NAP break him.

[Persain]

You need a counter alliance to beat Abs if your kd is not as good as they are as a whole.

Have you tried? No, you haven't, so stop talking about something you clearly know nothing about.

so any crappy kd can beat abs huh...i wonder if any crappy kd could beat u or are u so good that rule doesnt apply....oh

I hope you realize I have won ages after suffering a multi attack of 400+ provinces.

i c question answered then.

You clearly have never played with Elit (he is more stubborn than a bull). Dirty is hands down the most skilled player in this game in the past 15 or so ages and he could not talk him down, so it's clearly not about the skill of the co-leader. Utopia, while a math game, also has a human element. With the benefit of hindsight, of course it is easy to say. Hell, even with a bit of logic, you could argue we should have saw it coming too - and a lot of people did. But if your argument is that Elit should have been convinced, then you don't know him very well.

yea its the exact reason he needed someone to actually help that he'd be bound by not just some random voice in his ear. Everyone isn't you realest and incapable of making a mistake, when you have players that are prone to mistakes allying up and working make the able to compete with kds they arent as good as....a big reason there needs to be an alliance is there arent many kds at their level..

And that is why I propose we need to put these things aside and move forward. The game is not going do it for you if people don't be a bigger man.

Bottom line, there are always excuses to play lame and to say so otherwise is folly.

Bottom line is it's fun to watch the top kds drama. Its mostly between people that try to power game for position, so its all fun to read. But fair enough @ the "bigger man" comment lets see if enough people are the bigger man so u can try to crown, cause I'm thinking it'll be fun to watch Simians mess with you, even if u win.


edit: so i stay on topic
2) What is the proper way/time to serve notice.
I know the last time i served notice to someone i didnt like i treated them much differntly than i would someone i respected. could of caused some drama to but then again "proper" is however i feel like treating that person. For some reason i think most people would act exactly that way.

[goodz]

It would be impossible to make "rules" regarding when you can notice. Everyone asks for all kinds of different features in every deal it seems. I imagine this will make the OP dissapointed...

[Realest]

so any crappy kd can beat abs huh...i wonder if any crappy kd could beat u or are u so good that rule doesnt apply....oh

i c question answered then.

yea its the exact reason he needed someone to actually help that he'd be bound by not just some random voice in his ear. Everyone isn't you realest and incapable of making a mistake, when you have players that are prone to mistakes allying up and working make the able to compete with kds they arent as good as....a big reason there needs to be an alliance is there arent many kds at their level..

Bottom line is it's fun to watch the top kds drama. Its mostly between people that try to power game for position, so its all fun to read. But fair enough @ the "bigger man" comment lets see if enough people are the bigger man so u can try to crown, cause I'm thinking it'll be fun to watch Simians mess with you, even if u win.


edit: so i stay on topic
2) What is the proper way/time to serve notice.
I know the last time i served notice to someone i didnt like i treated them much differntly than i would someone i respected. could of caused some drama to but then again "proper" is however i feel like treating that person. For some reason i think most people would act exactly that way.

you make no sense. you are the type of stupid that is reminiscent of a brain trauma patient, and I see a lot of those at my work.

[flutterby]

so any crappy kd can beat abs huh...i wonder if any crappy kd could beat u or are u so good that rule doesnt apply....oh

You don't HAVE to be in an 'alliance' to crown above Abs. Have connections, yes. Alliance, no. Pulse has pulled it off. If you want to take Abs completely out of the picture, it will take a lot of planning and willing kingdoms.
Even then, there is always next age. Then they'll be back, just like every other kingdom.

[Ezzerland]

It's not about rules or how you feel about someone.

[Darkz Azn]

Do you people read the news .. Absalom is disbanding.

[flutterby]

Do you people read the news .. Absalom is disbanding.

After the incident with HoH they reconsidered.

[Darkz Azn]

It published on the forum way before that ...

[flutterby]

It published on the forum way before that ...

The one ezzernub wrote?

[flogger]

People always say you need a counter alliance to beat Absalom, and that's simply not true.

In a world of 2500a pool/day, a world in which you have no experience with, being a solo kingdom has no chance. MA fought a 1/2 fight and won it about as good as you could win it, yet when they got out of it, their next opposition had 2 more banks already. Fairly tough to overcome.

[Realest]

Parity definitely seems a lot higher, and winning now requires more luck. However, i'd still test my luck going solo than to team up with bad kids who are more prone to causing me problems. Think Trinity in Absalom, and how badly you guys wanted to kick them out if you could.