Totally broken Conquest formula

[Cello]

AB is right. Conquest was never intended to be just as powerful as a traditional march. Networth relative gains go for conquest as much as TMs, that's why your gains were crap. Changing conquest to be affected less by networth would be overpowering conquest, and changing the dynamics of the game. The point about Conquest is to take down targets in range that you wouldn't have been able to take down otherwise, not to have gains on provinces that are outside of your networth range and weren't supposed to be a target for your province in the first place, otherwise people would be picking Warriors just to take down cows that are 150% the size of their own Killer provinces.

[idiocy]

CQ range iis 5%, good range for gains is 15 max 20%. There is not penalize on it. But hit over 25-30% don't matter if its TM or CQ gains go down alot and its don't make sense to ask for "fix" it. Warrior can CQ in 15% range for normal gains, not like rest in 5% nw range.

what is the number one complaint over the past few ages? cows and unbreakables (and faeries) are too overpowered because of the defense they have, and nw range removes conquest as a viable option against such provinces or at least reduces its' usefulness.
at the very least, the topfeeding gains penalty on conquest should be less than it is for traditional march, as the penalty in troop losses for hitting up, the troop loss for using conquest, and the likelihood that a huge unbreakable province is only getting broken with the low end of conquest gains, is enough of a deterrent for using conquest against big provinces. fixing conquest to work like it should work is a lot better than nerfing bottomfeeding or removing raze from war as a counter to large unbreakables... but conquest has always been neglected since the age it was introduced (when the game was a very different beast, admittedly), and since then its inclusion has been mostly an afterthought in the game's design.

several times in previous ages, i was able to abuse the topfeeding mechanics to assure that provinces couldn't complete chains against me, and laughed as kingdoms tried to bounce/trad/conquest my big province. if conquest were a little less punishing for small provinces hitting up, it would prevent that kind of exploit.
remove or restrict conquest outside of war, that's fine, but in war there should be more counters to large cows unless they can become true unbreakables.

[American Badass]

PF + BG + BL + Emerald Dragon on a successful Conquest cripples defenses even when hitting OOR. Hit a faery with that on to open them up... Banks you should have to work on to break...

[StratOcastle]

Orc Warriors because Faery Clerics numbers have risen dramatically! 3 last age, 7 now. It's the ugly truth guys.

[idiocy]

PF + BG + BL + Emerald Dragon on a successful Conquest cripples defenses even when hitting OOR. Hit a faery with that on to open them up... Banks you should have to work on to break...

I'm fine with conquest losses being high, but the combination of high losses and terrible gains because of nw range - the very thing conquest was intended to overcome in the first place - makes it only good for attacking faeries and halfers at range, and not a very effective solution at that. It's way better to just build up the offense needed to break the faery/halfer outright and trad them, if you want the faery dead.

[StratOcastle]

Well generally you're dealing with a province with no GS and no hospitals. To my mind warrior conquest is to crack the door for your tactician who sends the victim to processing with your cleric.

[American Badass]

I'm fine with conquest losses being high, but the combination of high losses and terrible gains because of nw range - the very thing conquest was intended to overcome in the first place - makes it only good for attacking faeries and halfers at range, and not a very effective solution at that. It's way better to just build up the offense needed to break the faery/halfer outright and trad them, if you want the faery dead.

No... twas introduced as sometimes you can not hit a fully pumped/drafted Faery that is within range due to really high def. It was not introduced to hit a province 150% above you for good gains OOF... It is increased in war to stop turtlers or provide a way for attackers to open them up if they chose warrior.

[goodz]

It was only 10k away from a trad, which is only a small fraction of the total military power of the prov being attacked. The formulas obviously need to be reworked and based around those other factors.

If a 160 pound fighter knocks out a 208 pound bully wouldnt you expect huge gains of reputation? Ok, it was a technical knockout and not a full knockout, doesnt justify the penalty.

The only justification is preventing abuse, and like i said that will happen anyway.

And those weren't locs, it was a random number expressing the sheer quantity of a certain alliance that plagues the game.

And I did not post anything about a bank. Don't make assumptions

10k away actually sounds huge. But the numbers your providing are useless. Anyway NW range effects all hits a full trad at 30% topfeed is like 5% gains? so i think your CQ would get you something decently under that...

I believe a full CQ is 8% gains vs a trad being 12% so i would assume a 100% conquest is like 66% . I am not very familiar with how they work though but if its a flat scale then a 50% conquest would be say 4% gains. But dont forget the same gains penalties as a trad aka NW range.

[idiocy]

10k away actually sounds huge. But the numbers your providing are useless. Anyway NW range effects all hits a full trad at 30% topfeed is like 5% gains? so i think your CQ would get you something decently under that...

I believe a full CQ is 8% gains vs a trad being 12% so i would assume a 100% conquest is like 66% . I am not very familiar with how they work though but if its a flat scale then a 50% conquest would be say 4% gains. But dont forget the same gains penalties as a trad aka NW range.

A 50% conquest at perfect nw range is something like 2.5% gains.

[Soul_Hunter]

Well just don't hit 30% bigger provinces anyway...And cut the bs.

[Cello]

goodz has trouble reading :P Bishop mentioned earlier in the thread that sending a regular breaking attack with CQ gets you 6.8% ;)

[goodz]

oops sorry cello i was on my phone didnt see the earlyier post nubme

[Primal Redemption]

Well just don't hit 30% bigger provinces anyway...And cut the bs.

not sure what bs you are referring to, but I will let it go since bulgarians gave birth to Skiller. You could be his sister for all we know and i wouldnt want to disrespect skiller.

Anyway, as an example, if a 190k prov hits me at 150k i am just under 80% his size and he gets 8% of my acres. My nw would drop to 145 from the loss of buildings/troops. All of a sudden he is over 130% my size. I might not have enough offense to retal with trad(just an example, of course i could retal a bottom feeding suiciding newb) and opt for a conquest as an alternative. Would it not be utterly lame to be unable to recapture at least 50% of the lost acres in such a fashion? Especially if the conquest is 80% plus of his def. The statement "dont go hitting 30% bigger than you" is quite shortsighted. Cut the bs.

[American Badass]

That just means you got beat by the game and in result should get to number 1 so it can not happen!

[Elldallan]

not sure what bs you are referring to, but I will let it go since bulgarians gave birth to Skiller. You could be his sister for all we know and i wouldnt want to disrespect skiller.

Anyway, as an example, if a 190k prov hits me at 150k i am just under 80% his size and he gets 8% of my acres. My nw would drop to 145 from the loss of buildings/troops. All of a sudden he is over 130% my size. I might not have enough offense to retal with trad(just an example, of course i could retal a bottom feeding suiciding newb) and opt for a conquest as an alternative. Would it not be utterly lame to be unable to recapture at least 50% of the lost acres in such a fashion? Especially if the conquest is 80% plus of his def. The statement "dont go hitting 30% bigger than you" is quite shortsighted. Cut the bs.

Either use ambush to regain the 50% you mentioned, if he's a tact or used anon/ws well too bad for you, find somone else in his kd to retal.
If you cannot break him you should not expect CQ to make your day, it's not there to help you hit big out of range provinces.
As multiple people have stated before, it's there to help you break in range unbreakable provinces as indicated by the +-5% limit the attack normally has.