FSMz vs RAGE

[Sig]

I like how RAGE is leaving out all of the details. RAGE begs for CF with a possibility of an extension. Dealbreakers say they want to war no extension. RAGE crys but we are too small to war. Dealbreakers say they'll give you a week to grow so you can war fairly. RAGE says ok and gets CF then grows 2 banks(who without CF wouldnt have grown) and come deadline time for war says they arent going to war. Dealbreakers says thats BS we are putting you on notice. RAGE then crys about getting double or triple hostiled and accuses Dealbreakers of threatening this and that about hittin them in hostile or war. RAGE says they will duck into a hostile or another war to avoid Dealbreakers. Dealbreakers say thats bull**** we breaking CF and slappin your nutz. Dealbreakers break CF and slap nutz with 2 hits. RAGE crys Deal break. Havoc tells Dealbreakers if they dont give the acres back they will be GBed. Dealbreakers grab their nutz and prepare for war. Dealbreakers go to war honorably while RAGE calls in outside help so they dont lose their cows in war...

From an outside perspective I dont see how anyone in their right mind can support RAGE or be against Dealbreakers. Afterall, wasn't it RAGE who broke the deal? RAGE would not have been able to grow 2 banks had Dealbreakers not CFed. Dealbreakers would not have CFed if RAGE wasnt going to war.

I think the proof is in the pudding. Who is the one playing dirty? Yeah...Dealbreakers...an upstart kd who did nothin wrong other than puttin the wood to scumbags for breaking an agreement...now they are the ones labeled "Dealbreakers"

You should all be ashamed of yourselves for siding with Abs on this. If not because Abs is dirty...at least be ashamed of being a total moron.

:D
Have a nice day

Pretty much everything you said, Dumbass Utopian, fills in the huge gaps little snakey Drixxy loves to leave out with his talented word-play.

[tak3shi]

Oh my... My apologies Drixx.... I have very VERY rarely seen Rage keep a deal. It must be some other Rage kd I'm thinking of...

But honestly, if they broke the deal, then deal with it. Kill them all. But don't call for help, that's about as big a sissy move as you can make...

Fight your own battles. Call upon friends ONLY when you are the one being double teamed.

And Ravenant, Tak3shi, hengz, CanNy, and whoever is in HoH, I"m very ashamed of you. But this is exactly why ABS keeps you around... I wish you hadn't interferred though... it's very cowardly.

Personally, since Rage made it clear that razing from friends is fair, I hope Rage is razed down to ghettoland and never sees another hour of peace this age. :D But then I'm spiteful like that...

This coming from the the lead person who almost single handedly tried to destroyed HoH. You should be ashamed of yourself.

If you wanna keep ties don't do stuff like this publicly.

[tak3shi]

Over the past 4-5 days? I've exhausted myself trying to bring a close to this situation trying to negotiate something out till 4-5am so this doesn't happen. I'm terribly sorry this has come to pass. But we have tried everything within our power to avoid such a situation despite being sold out early age by our so called "friends".

[KyGal]

This coming from the the lead person who almost single handedly destroyed HoH. You should be ashamed of yourself.

If you wanna keep ties don't do stuff like this publicly.

I left HoH, but before I left, I tried with all my powers to persuade Rave to take the kingdom independent. He chose not to. So I simply said, "I can't play like this, not with ABS as allies, but I understand that you are tied to them. So I'll just retire and take a couple of ages off".

Rave then put it to the KD, "Stay with HoH, period", "Stay with HoH if they break ties with ABS", or "I'm leaving regardless"... I never asked a single person to go with me, I didn't try to get them out. But 1 had decided before me that he had to leave, to get away from ABS, then I decided I just couldn't do it anymore. And then about 9 or 10 others chose that they couldn't stay with HoH if tied to ABS. I didn't set out to, nor did I destroy the KD.

I simply decided it was time for me to go. And so I left. Others chose to leave, for their own reasons. Once they made the decision to go, I made plans to keep them with me. And I told Ravenant clearly, if in a couple of ages, you decide to take HoH indepedent, we'll come back and we'll reform to be stronger than ever.

But don't you dare think I set out to destroy HoH. I could have done it, in a heart beat, if that was my goal. :-) But I respect Ravenant and hengz, and I chose to go my way and wish them luck in rebuilding.

[pmyraje]

What a surprise, an alliance kingdom calling in allies to GB their war opponents! Good to see nothing has changed since the old days and alliance kingdoms still scrape the gutter.

[Ghetto_King]

What a surprise, an alliance kingdom calling in allies to GB their war opponents! Good to see nothing has changed since the old days and alliance kingdoms still scrape the gutter.

Rage and Alliance is doing pretty good. Looks like they killed 1 prov already and working on the 2nd. I got my money on the Alliance pulling it out GB style.

[tak3shi]

I left HoH, but before I left, I tried with all my powers to persuade Rave to take the kingdom independent. He chose not to. So I simply said, "I can't play like this, not with ABS as allies, but I understand that you are tied to them. So I'll just retire and take a couple of ages off".

Rave then put it to the KD, "Stay with HoH, period", "Stay with HoH if they break ties with ABS", or "I'm leaving regardless"... I never asked a single person to go with me, I didn't try to get them out. But 1 had decided before me that he had to leave, to get away from ABS, then I decided I just couldn't do it anymore. And then about 9 or 10 others chose that they couldn't stay with HoH if tied to ABS. I didn't set out to, nor did I destroy the KD.

I simply decided it was time for me to go. And so I left. Others chose to leave, for their own reasons. Once they made the decision to go, I made plans to keep them with me. And I told Ravenant clearly, if in a couple of ages, you decide to take HoH indepedent, we'll come back and we'll reform to be stronger than ever.

But don't you dare think I set out to destroy HoH. I could have done it, in a heart beat, if that was my goal. :-) But I respect Ravenant and hengz, and I chose to go my way and wish them luck in rebuilding.

Right leaving a kd with no bot, no players, no nothing at the start of the age isn't destroying them. There was hardly anything left of HoH when I was asked to help revive it. U initiated/played a part in trying to disband it. That is the end result, no matter how u word things.

P.s
This will be my last reply to you on boards.

[pmyraje]

Rage and Alliance is doing pretty good. Looks like they killed 1 prov already and working on the 2nd. I got my money on the Alliance pulling it out GB style.

Well yeah, you'd kind of expect ~70 provinces to be able to beat 25 fairly obviously :P

[Drixx]

He said she said. Debauchery approached Rage about a CF. The CF was negotiated before any talk of war happened.

[22:21] <Silva> i heard u alr know who worms are
[22:22] <Drixx> yep
[22:23] <Silva> i have an agreement with them that i wouldn't CF abs for prolonged periods. or i lose their CF. and i am more afraid of them atm. naturally.
[22:23] <Drixx> all of these kds telling everyone what to do
[22:23] <Silva> i know
[22:24] <Silva> mean people
[22:25] <Drixx> there's no rule that says you have to disclose your cfs to anyone else, as far as I'm aware
[22:25] <Drixx> and there's no rule that says a CF /must/ have an in-game cf
[22:26] <Drixx> what you do is your business
[22:27] <Silva> i like that idea. but they are closely watching me atm and they have run out of targets. i can <expletive> <some kd> but im not in a position to bargain with worms
[22:28] <Drixx> you're not obligated to war us
[22:28] <Drixx> you could also fight <others>
[22:28] <Silva> i can only CF u Yr3 Jan 1st with a view to extending, depending on how worms react to us.
[22:29] <Drixx> throw in 48 hours notice instead of 24 and that will work
[22:30] <Silva> tell me mechanics pls
[22:30] <Silva> of 48hrs notice
[22:30] <Drixx> not into or out of hostile/war/eowcf acceptable?
[22:30] <Silva> anytime after Jan 1st 48hr notice still has to be given
[22:30] <Silva> ?
[22:31] <Drixx> yeah, notice before fight, else we both have to pump for nothing in may year2
[22:31] <Silva> cos i wasn't sure when i agreed to terms with them :P
[22:31] <Drixx> notice is separate from duration
[22:31] <Silva> So after Jan 1 Yr 3 it is a FFA
[22:31] <Silva> no notice required anymore right?
[22:32] <Silva> cos CF technicallly ends
[22:32] <Drixx> after jan 1st, yr3 it is 48-hour notice
[22:32] <Silva> oh
[22:32] <Drixx> notice is a separet thing from cf
[22:32] <Drixx> so that people don't have to pump for no reason
[22:32] <Drixx> notice is generally "we intend to fight you"
[22:32] <Silva> so if i notice u may 1st yr 2
[22:32] <Silva> that works?
[22:32] <Silva> LOL am i wasting your time im sorry
[22:33] <Drixx> I'm fairly certain I know you know these things
[22:33] <Silva> u are a raelly nice guy unlike what i've heard about most of abs
[22:33] <Drixx> but I'm not trying to be a dick to people
[22:33] <Drixx> lol
[22:33] <Silva> hahahaha
[22:33] <Drixx> there's a reason this game shrunk from 100k players
[22:34] <Drixx> in the end, all the powerplaying just drove away the players who wanted to play for fun
[22:34] <Drixx> imo
[22:34] <Drixx> I've played all but 2 ages
[22:35] <Drixx> so we agree on january 1st, yr3 with 48 hour notice eligible to be given upon that date or afterward, cannot be given into or out of hostile/war/eowcf ... with the mutual agreement that we'd rather extend than fight at that point?
[22:36] <Silva> i think that is fair.

According to "worms" there was never any "don't cf abs or we'll wave you" threats, and Silva later apologized and called it a "misunderstanding"

You will note that already from the start there's quite a lot of trolling here. It was debauchery who negotiated with "a view to extending". It was only after Rage CF'd up with all other threats that Debauchery changed their tune about extending. I personally spent a good deal of time talking with Silva trying for an extension and 5 days before the dealbreak I even asked if any terms might secure an extension. We were told that nothing we might offer would get a CF extension, so we whored and explored and prepared to fight.

The night before the dealbreak, Debauchery asked for 4500 acres for a 2 week CF extension. I talked to my folks and there was some potential acceptance if we could limit the damage to provs who could regain the lost acres. Silva refused to put any limitations on which provs would be hit.

The day of the dealbreak Silva claimed to be feeling unwell and had me talk to Cody. Between the previous night's conversation and my conversation with Cody one of our new players came to me and warned me that there was a kd in war range of us considering waving us, and we didn't have a CF. So, while negotiating with Cody, I specifically asked him if debauchery was going to 2v1 us if we got hostiled by another kd before notice was up. I made it very clear that we wouldn't initiate a hostile, but I did want to know what debauchery would do because I would have rather given them 4500a for a CF than have a 2v1 hostile/war going on. Throughout the conversation Cody demanded 4.5-5k acres for a CF or otherwise he was going to give notice on Jan 1st, YR3.

Roughly 20 minutes after I declined to give them the acres for a CF extension, on July 24th, YR2, they dealbroke and hit our two biggest provs for just over 1000 and just over 700 acres respectively, and then dove to fort.

So despite assertions to the contrary, this situation is pretty straightforward and cut and dry. As I've told folks who I've talked to this age, it's much better to just be honest about things and deal with each other fairly.

@KyGal - You and I have no quarrel. I get who you are upset at and why, but you kind of need to sort that with him. I haven't done anything to you to warrant your venom.


-------------------

Cliffnotes: Debauchery initiated the first CF talks, with "a view to extending" then thought they would have an easy war against a much smaller kd so tried to force a war. Rage then whored and explored and prepped and Debauchery got scared and dealbroke. Then they refused to do the honorable thing. Now they are crying about the consequences.

[silverfox]

Well yeah, you'd kind of expect ~70 provinces to be able to beat 25 fairly obviously :P

Not sure, they won the WW crown don't you know.

Edit - Holy Jesus reading those logs are painful, that's now considered T5 diplomacy? "What's a notice", is this real life? I knew things were bad but R.I.P. Utopia...

[Crazy Pete]

I think KyGal was a great leader, she created a lot of systems to try and organize HoH. Before her it was pretty chaotic at times. If I was KyGal I would take what you said Takeshi as a compliment, that one player could be so important to a kd that they almost fold (which is utter B.S.). I do think she was the heart of the kingdom but one player doesn't play 25 provinces.

I also said the same thing if HoH became an independent kingdom I would also return and was tired of all the Absalom B.S. I have respect for ravenant, hengz and company and wish them well.

I find it interesting that the HoH alliance could be so dominating last age and that this age and this age to look not so great. I think HoH was a bigger part to the alliance then most people liked to believe.

[protector]

Aren't you being incredibly biased?

Are you?

It's already been argued to death that both were at fault.

Then why argue further yourself?

AMA Targetshares

Wrong, that was me arranging the taunt. It was also Havoc that was taunted, not Sanc (Bishop taunt Sanc 1-2 weeks before that)
Sanc robbed AMA knowing they had an upcoming fight. The same happened when we destroyed Sanc OOP in Age 55 and Sanc robbed+plundered us just before Mercy(Havoc) noticed us.

When Havoc doubled AMA, both Sanc and Havoc where at fault. Or are you saying it wasn't coordinated? Make that teh cat wise jo! \:D/

[protector]

@KyGal - You and I have no quarrel. I get who you are upset at and why, but you kind of need to sort that with him. I haven't done anything to you to warrant your venom.

Your problem is that your previous leaders ****ed it up for you. Rage did things and as you lead Rage, you'll have to suffer from the consequences of the previous bad crap that happened. It'll get fixed, eventually, but it takes time.

[Persain]

From an outside perspective I dont see how anyone in their right mind can support RAGE or be against Dealbreakers. Afterall, wasn't it RAGE who broke the deal? RAGE would not have been able to grow 2 banks had Dealbreakers not CFed. Dealbreakers would not have CFed if RAGE wasnt going to war.

always two sides to every story. And based on kd reputations & interactions i've had alone it's easy side with rage. U cant' simply retag and have all your past history erased.

And for what its worth correct me if im wrong but the way this thread reads is.
Stippers wanted war rage said no thanks we're to small.
Stippers replies we'll give u a week long extention to get in range but know we're gonna come at u then.
Rage grows banks, when week is up declines war again.
Strippers says, no, u war us or we 2v1 u.
Stippers then breaks cf no notice and hits.
Rage calls in allies as ^^ is not acceptable.

To me that seems to side with rage as the more reasonable kd.

[Elldallan]

Right leaving a kd with no bot, no players, no nothing at the start of the age isn't destroying them. There was hardly anything left of HoH when I was asked to help revive it. U initiated/played a part in trying to disband it. That is the end result, no matter how u word things.

P.s
This will be my last reply to you on boards.

Correlation doesn't neccessarily imply causation. leaving a kd with no bot if the bot was yours is the kd's problem, not yours and doesn't neccessarily mean you're trying to destrying anything.
Putting things to a vote and people leaving of their own accord because they didn't want to continue to be Abs lapdogs when it was clear the kd policy wasn't going to change isn't trying to destroy anything either.

Just because there wasn't anything left when you took over doesn't mean whoever came before was actively trying to destroy anything, it just means that there was hardly anything left. Yes the end result may very well be the same but trying to destroy implies intent and actions taken, if those are lacking then...

always two sides to every story. And based on kd reputations & interactions i've had alone it's easy side with rage. U cant' simply retag and have all your past history erased.

And for what its worth correct me if im wrong but the way this thread reads is.
Stippers wanted war rage said no thanks we're to small.
Stippers replies we'll give u a week long extention to get in range but know we're gonna come at u then.
Rage grows banks, when week is up declines war again.
Strippers says, no, u war us or we raze into your next war.
Rage calls in allies as ^^ is not acceptable.

To me that seems to side with rage as the more reasonable kd.

Well last age Havoc accused AMA of trying to dodge them when they had legitimate conflict with Sanct, their ally who knowing that Havoc was gonna war AMA went and picked a fight with AMA anyway and then 2v1'ed AMA to because they were unlikely to win the war any other way.
To me this just seems to me like Abs needs to learn to play by the precedents they themselves set when they're hell bent on acting like assholes to further their own goals.
Yes Rage was not a part of that particular conflict but anything bad an Abs kd does reflects upon all Abs kingdoms, they are an alliance and whatever 1 kd does everyone will reasonably assume is fine with the rest of the alliance or those actions would be prevented or at the very least condemned.
Instead of doing that ASF and Proteus(who both played in Rage at the time so in a way Rage was involved in that conflict) was very active defending Havoc and Sancts actions(even more so than goodz and dorje, the leaders of Havoc and Sanct at the time), therefore one can only assume that Rage is perfectly fine with attacking a kd when notice runs out regardless what that kd is doing at the time.