Havoc vs AMA Round 2

[tetley]

Lol I'm surprised godly even responded to all the comments in this thread... pretty noble effort

[Proteus]

The comments in this thread are stupid. This is why i always talked **** and dont respect other people, they dont say anything smart. Just because someone wants to fight you doesnt mean you have to fight them, if you think otherwise you are just dumb, really ****ing dumb. This is a strategy game if you think you can beat another kd and get WW bonus and then be in better shape to fight the competition then do it.

The age bb won a crown and beat multiple kingdoms there were Weeks apart each fight. No one is obligated to chain fight b2b2b.

When people misunderstand is sitting oow pumping and collecting gc while someone wars doesnt mean you are playing better, any noob can pump and grow in vacuum. Everyone understand a kd using pool oow will be the CLEAR favorite over anyone they vulture 48h after end of eow cf, why would the kingdom that just got out of war want to take odds like that in a STRATEGY game unless they are ****ng bad and their strategy sucks.

[baka]

The comments in this thread are stupid. This is why i always talked **** and dont respect other people, they dont say anything smart. Just because someone wants to fight you doesnt mean you have to fight them, if you think otherwise you are just dumb, really ****ing dumb. This is a strategy game if you think you can beat another kd and get WW bonus and then be in better shape to fight the competition then do it.

The age bb won a crown and beat multiple kingdoms there were Weeks apart each fight. No one is obligated to chain fight b2b2b.

When people misunderstand is sitting oow pumping and collecting gc while someone wars doesnt mean you are playing better, any noob can pump and grow in vacuum. Everyone understand a kd using pool oow will be the CLEAR favorite over anyone they vulture 48h after end of eow cf, why would the kingdom that just got out of war want to take odds like that in a STRATEGY game unless they are ****ng bad and their strategy sucks.

By your logic, AMA should just give some small ghetto the button and that's a hostile and legitimate.

[Lestat]

Just farm them again Elit

[Jobolob]

Wow proteus speaks **** that everyone already knows. I dont see the debate here. Apparently havoc want ama, apparently bb want havoc. Both parties gonna play their diplo accordingly to make their goals happen. Its simple, stop getting your knickers in a twist.

Godly sucks

[Elit]

Sad part is none ask what AMA want :(

[gergnub]

Sad part is none ask what AMA want :(

Elit, what would you want? :)

[Realest]

Sad part is none ask what AMA want :(

Elit ftw

[Smitty87]

Best option for AMA is explore those 3 calves to 18k banks and then have cow advantage in their next war. Havoc will get dominated by BB 2 banks vs 1. Against AMA their 1 bank may remain ub vs the 3 calves and allow havoc to AW/NS the calves down.

My advice for Elit . Grow those calves to 18k each and then find a war, let BB pwn havoc

[protector]

My advice for Elit . Grow those calves to 18k each and then find a war, let BB pwn havoc

I suggest if you don't know what the costs are to explore at these sizes, you stop giving bad advice ;p

[Palem]

4) Accusing people of running is the dumbest thing ever, After all these years of playing I have seen every single kingdom pick whoever they want to fight based on their self interest...its not running
-its only running when you wave some small weak sauce kingdom to dodge a strong one, AMA is not a weak sauce kd.

Hmmm....
*into the rabbit hole*

Waving us to dodge havoc is probably not going to work out in the long term, but should be fun for both kingdoms in the meantime.

Here I was sitting all postwar waiting for such a request, and when it didn't come I assumed mom intended to dodge havoc by waving us.

It looks to me like Elit got notice from Havoc and decided that they didn't really want to fight them so decided to re-wave Sanc to try and dodge havoc. This seems to have been their plan all along to do if they got notice (hence why they wouldn't cf Sanc.) Elit seemed to think he had some deal with Havoc that would require they retract their notice if Elit waved another kingdom after getting notice, but their deal had no such clause. Chalk that one up to Elit's English deficiency.

1) Why not cf sanctuary if you didn't plan to use them to try and dodge havoc all along?

My theory is that he didn't want to cf sanc because he wanted to wave them as a means to dodge havoc.

As for beastblood and Rage, yes Rage cf'd Beastblood after beating you in war and did not try and use you as a safety net to dodge Elit's notice. Elit on the other hand did not cf Sanc and wanted to use them to dodge Havoc's notice.

Pew's notice to Sanc is legit if they did it before you and Sanc exchanged hits. The difference is Sanc is not trying to dodge their notice from Pew, you are the one trying to not be noticed by Havoc. It does not matter if Sanc robbed you prior to Havoc giving notice (if that was even the case). What is known by everyone is that they gave you notice BEFORE any hits were exchanged between you and Sanc so it is a valid notice. You just are afraid to lose so its natural/obvious that you want to get out of it.

Hey there, new kid, every kd gets robbed these days, protect your gold. Chosing to wave our ally after we noticed you because they robbed you is pretty lol way to dodge them, imagine if every kd waved every uncf'd kd that robbed their 0tpa provs what the game would be like. We'd all really suck, just like you!

It looks like it was Elit's plan all along to wave Sanc to buy themselves time to get their provinces explored up and dodge Havoc.

I guess they figured if Elit was going to wave them to dodge Havoc, it's better to take the money before they use it all.

I agree there are two sides and I'm not trying to say my side is "right", but I also don't think havoc is any more "wrong" than pew pew and I think Elit played poorly trying to dodge havoc.

To follow up actions like that with a hostile dodge he got what he wanted finally. If we truly wanted to "abuse our alliance" we wouldnt even be having this discussion, would be alot worse for the other side, and much easier than trying to be respectul and fair to our enemies.

Funny if we wanted to really powerplay you would not be in top to begin with. First you exploited a clear screwup by Bishop and the dev's on what could be expected in Fortified, then you attempt to vulture us, then you target-share one of our kingdoms, then you try to use a Hostile block with one of our allies to dodge a notice you were given even further in advance than you asked.

You tried to dodge Havoc when they noticed you because you can't win 1vs1. Classic Elit move.

I know you're mad about having to fight Havoc when you wanted to avoid them, but sometimes you can't always dodge kingdoms that want to wave you. For example, we didn't want you to wave us either right after our war, but at least we weren't nub enough to try waving some other kingdom to dodge you.

It's clear you wouldn't cf sanc because you thought that was your ticket to dodge havoc.

You probably could have even been in a stronger position than them had you not been so greedy with wanting to use your pool and try and dodge them. Instead you decided in advance you wouldn't "accept" their notice and instead of getting ready for them you'd use your explore pool and use Sanc as an excuse to not fight Havoc.

If I was Havoc and you dodged me waving an ally after I gave you clear notice, I would have waved you straight away after you waved Sanctuary in an attempt to twist the notice.

Trying to dodge notices by waving another weaker kingdom is just not smart since stuff like this can happen.

No, it has not in any way been "proven false" that Elit was trying to use Sanc to dodge notice with Havoc.

Instead his plan was always to use sanc as an excuse to dodge Havoc's notice and use their pool.

If Elit was so sure he would stomp Havoc, or even Rage for that matter, why did he wave a KD for stealing that he cant war to dodge the notice of one until he could farm alot more acres and explore up and ask for an EOA CF from other.

Do you think it was also unfair to havoc for Elit to try and dodge their notice when they told him in advance to plan for their notice once he was out of post war?

As i've stated, Rage has had many opportunities to do similar to Elit to try and avoid notices/waves but I've always been against it. And as you know, yes Rage has gotten doubled several times in somewhat recent ages and never was it from us trying to dodge a hostile. They were basically just pure blatent doubles.

I'm not saying this was "fair", it wasn't. I'm just saying that by Elit trying to dodge the hostile the situation automatically either was not going to end up fair for him or not fair for Havoc.

However sanc also expected and nearly certainly correctly, that Elit was going to wave them regardless to dodge Havoc.

I also said that if that kingdom refused to cf, then you'd have been put in a situation where you could not avoid the 2v1 and it wouldn't have been you trying to dodge Havoc.

...I didn't see Proteus defending AMA and telling ASF+jorje+PS+brado+himself that they weren't trying to dodge havoc lol

[Spahrep]

Hmmm....
*into the rabbit hole*











































...I didn't see Proteus defending AMA and telling ASF+jorje+PS+brado+himself that they weren't trying to dodge havoc lol

Or instead of making a chronicle of recent utopia history, you could throw around some fireballs :P

[Cello]

Palem is my new hero!

[october]

Thanks Palem.

What we have here is actions and words. Actions from last age and words from this age on how things work. Guess what, actions speak louder than words.

[Godly]

I thought the double on Elit last round was bad and won't be defending it here. The toughest thing about playing in an Absalom kingdom is having to deal with lots of poor decisions made by past kingdoms. I think everyone that knows me knows that I would not let anything Absalomish slide while I'm playing there. If I'm overruled, I'll leave. It's as simple as that.

Nonetheless, it's like comparing red apples and green apples. They're kinda similar but taste different:

Why? We have a reset clause. The reset clause was put into place specifically to allow the kingdom who gets noticed a chance for counter options. Why else would you put a reset clause in place? For this specific reason... flogger I'm sure wanted to make sure that we wouldn't doubleteam him if he wanted to wave someone else after a notice due to some stupid precedents set last round or that we wouldn't vulture him after a grueling war. In this case, it seems like we will be benefiting from his request. Nonetheless, everything we are planning to do is 100% legal.

Hope this helps!