The ultimate strategy thread

[flogger]

On this thread I will share, with anyone, my opinion on any strategy subject or question asked by anyone. Its like the ask realest thread but with better information and no ego inflating, so have a question? shoot.

[goodz]

Why do you always like dwarfs so much?

[Maximo]

What's the most important early science for early warring?

[neanderthal]

In age 59 create the ultimate 24 province warring kingdom.

Tell us the mix of race/personality combo and a little about why your choice of each.

Ie.
5 halfer rogue
5 Orc warrior

Etc...

The main goal is to crown ww

[flogger]

Why do you always like dwarfs so much?

Avians are slightly better right away in a fight. But at the later stages avian has a strong SWEA/Simians potential from last age, in such that you can win the first war but even with the war win are screwed because you spend 50% of your EoW econ on razing and rebuilding, and then are screwed if the dwarf kingdom comes around for round #2. So we added that with a heavy attacker setup in which its virtually impossible to lose land in round #1, and its a good combination.

[flogger]

What's the most important early science for early warring?

Well depends how early. Magic OOP since you can't really chain someone's troops away and people are on 10+ peasants per acre so economy is more important than in later wars, when everyone is on barely breakeven income or negative. Stronger guilds + mag sci will win early wars, but you have to run heavy towers cause of the rune cost formula.

By week 1, generally the kingdom that snuck in higher TPA, and thus thief sci are pretty important. Most of the early free waves are when one kd is on 2 TPA and the other .5.

[flogger]

In age 59 create the ultimate 24 province warring kingdom.

Tell us the mix of race/personality combo and a little about why your choice of each.

Ie.
5 halfer rogue
5 Orc warrior

Etc...

The main goal is to crown ww

3 halfling war hero, sapphire is the main dragon to be used and being immune to it lets you riot/rob other heavy thief provs the best, no more doubly effective TDs on rogues so this will have the highest pure TPA.
8 faery mystics - number sounds about right, primarily MS duty on other halfers and some nightmares and Fools gold/fireball. Has clear sight and 5 pt def, gonna be your best mystic.
14 halfling rogue - Can propaganda destroy off/def of any of the core races. has 4/4 units so fairly immune to chaining and with +10% pop not too bad militarily vs attacking cores. Can kill enemy mystics with this sheer number, both sides shred eachothers attackers, whoever kills eachother's halflings the best win, and you've got 8 mystics to ensure MS does its part.

Orc lost its leet creds so isn't terribly viable, and dwarf/avians offenses can be contained with NS and undead lost CS. Setup should be able to kill everything but halfers fairly easily, and you can actually take a halfer down with NM'ing thieves away + NS to secure the WW at the end.

That's the best warring kingdom, probably going to be hard to find wars with that setup, however.

[Topsy]

What would be your preferred setup for a 3v3 setting in a vacuum with these conditions: The kd has 3k acres pool total. no prov can be smaller than 400 acres. Current age race/pers changes. They will not engage until yr 1, yr 4, or yr 8.

Alternatively, same question with 5k acres.

[Hell Fire]

from ghetto point of view , avian,orc,undead/cleric mix core kdm v/s orc warrior core kdm , same number of attackers on both sides
cleric kdm - how would you set up your attackers off. / def. against these over powered orc warriors and how to go about taking them down a.k.a. semi chains or hard chaining
also what would be the most effective dragon to begin your war, unsure if taking a more defensive or more offensive approach ,which do you feel would be best against these overpowered beasts.

[Anri]

Great thread Flogger. Keep it running.

[tiggis]

Elf Mage Attacker.

Looking for a build that allows MS cast + the ability to attack the low defense, retal and ambush in war.

How does this war build strike you?

5% Farms (steal food when needed)
16% Banks
12% TGs
8% Rax
10%GS
12% Guilds (after wizard pump is done)
12% towers (I have no idea)
23% Wts (too much?)
2% dungeons

Thanks

[2Utopian]

- How can you be twice as good as realest but have less then half the ego?

- You made a post about the BB Havoc conflict last age where you were discussing the mechanics of the cow fight and pointed to the ratio of Ospecs to elites as being a reason BB was winning. How does this affect it? Is it the rate at which elites die compared to ospecs even though the specs had +1 offense?

- I play in a lower tier kingdom and we often run into very attacker heavy kingdoms with 75:25 O:D provinces. What do you think is a good way to fight this typical low tier strategy?

[StratOcastle]

First, Thank you for starting this valuable thread flogger.
About intel gathering: in war, with what regularity is sot, som, sn, survey prudent?

[KingdomOfLolz]

Which do you think is stronger this age, Avian cleric or Orc warrior? Why?

[flogger]

Which do you think is stronger this age, Avian cleric or Orc warrior? Why?

So I'd start off with this math. Standard attacking build is something like 10 EPA and 8 DSPA.

So the orc starts off with: 77 OPA and 32 DPA. The avian 60 OPA and 32 DPA. Lets pit them against eachother in a 1 on 1 battle, which doesn't take into account chaining.

Lets assume that both can 2x eachother but can't 3x eachother to start. Orc is close to opening with 3x'ing, so that might blow this comparison out of the water, but in reality it likely doesn't since I would imagine avian with its cheaper troops (and being cleric) and more flexibility with building in EoW probably has slightly more military than the orc.

So go in Excel:

Column 1: Orc offense = 77 Column 2 Orc defense = 32. Column 3 Avian offense = 60, Column 4 Avian defense = 32. Column 5 is Column 1/4 = 2.41. Column 6 is 3/2 = 1.88. So the orc can 2.41x the avian and the avian can 1.88x the orc. In reality people run TGs more than forts so both of these numbers will be higher, and in reality its much more likely orc is like 9 EPA and 7.5 DSPA compared to avian 9.5 EPA and 8, etc. But lets go through the exercise anyways.

Then make these formulas below the numbers above, assumes 5% troop kills for non-cleric and 2.5% troop kills for cleric and both sides 2x'ing

Column 1 Row 2 = 77*.95 = 73.15 orc offense left after first wave
Column 2 Row 2 = 32*.95^2 = 28.88 defense left after first wave getting hit twice
Column 3 Row 2 = 60*.975= 58.5 avian offense left after first wave
Column 3 Row 2 = 32*(1-.025*1.15)^2 (to account for orc kill bonus) = 30.19 defense left after getting hit twice.

Then after the first wave the ratios went from 2.41 and 1.88 to 2.42 and 2.03. Drag it down and you'll see that by the 4th wave, the avian outpaces the orc, where the avian can hit the orc 2.55 to the orcs 2.48. It only goes down after that.

The standard war kd setup will have 10 or more support TM provinces that aren't hitting. So in the scenario where the Avian kingdom initially hostiles the orc kingdom, the Avian is hitting the orc all home to start, killing offense. If the avian can only 1x, that turns the tide so that it only takes 3 waves for the avian to outpace the orc. If the avian can 2x on the orc turtled, that turns the tide after just 2 rounds of hits.

In the event the orc kingdom waves the avian kingdom, its clear the avian kingdom can just drag out hostile for 3-4 waves and basically enter war already having a clear military advantage, despite the orc being +10% in war and having 1 point higher elite. That's a good situation to be in. So the avian can open on the orc and do alright, but if the orc gives the button to the avian, it's in pretty big trouble. Orc will run some hospitals, but as you will see below, 15% hosps and 64% BE is only about -25% savings.

So militarily I like the avian from a numbers standpoint, I think its easier with cleric to fight back to back wars as your elite count stays higher, and it seems as if an orc kingdom waved my avian cleric kingdom, the avian kingdom would win simply by dragging out hostile.

So lets compare the rest of the bonuses, namely -30% attack time for avian and +30% gains and 1 general for orc.

A standard orc war build will be something like 10% guilds 4% towers 15% rax 15% tgs 15% gs 14% WTs 15% hospitals 1% dungeons 10% farms. This will give the orc 11.26 hour war attack time vs an avian on no barracks less than 9 hour attack time. Take the 11.26/1.3 for gains and you get the orc on roughly 8.66 equivalent attack time. So orc has the benefit of one extra general.

Is that extra general worth the 30% buildspace avian saves by not having 15% rax and hosps? I'd say no. The avian with that extra buildspace can make forts, can go homes to fit more military, or can go really heavy banks to actually afford much higher wages, and likely higher GS/tgs/WTs or some combination of the 6.

And lastly, I'd pick avian because a perfectly played avian can kill an orc fairly easily by using its attack time. Introduce chaining in the mix, chain the orc's dspecs away, and ninja 20x its offense once its home is the only true way to prevent either side from 4-5x'ing eachother.


I like orc cleric much better than orc warrior. It allows the orc military to keep up with the avian military, it already starts stronger, and that allows it to keep hitting enemy support provinces much easier and often, which is really the key to the wars at those size, being able to hit the unbreakables.