Now that we've had some time, how are the changes this age?

[Spahrep]

So this age we had a lot of balancing changes and some mechanic changes. What does everyone think is good/bad with the previous round or changes? I figure we might as well start chatting now aprox a month before eoa and see if the community as a whole can reach some consensus.

[crease]

-Sages are weak. Mystic Tm's are junk.
-Dwarves dont even notice the -10% gains.
-Cleric still ohpee.
-Human leet costs too much.

Explanation on the last point, for war kd who wont be stocking gc for long enough to matter, this doesnt affect them other than humans being lowest drafted oop and taking longest to be war ready. The 1k leet essentially prevents whore kds from using it entirely. ToG doesn't allow you to lower gold stocks by even close to enough to make up for the difference between dorf/avian leets. Dorf leet essentially costing sub 600gc with 140% BE (relatively)bonus on arms and an increased base income from BE. Compare this with human gaining +0% income from base with ToG and lower pezzy count(1.4x0.7=0.98(ToG x Humans/Dorfs Pezzie ratio = relative income)). It is also stuck with shyte BE from lower pezzy count, think 3 ppa less by midage, (120BE dorf vs 85 BE human while pumping is a joke)

This results in:
6/4 human leet costs 765 gc in fort with arms
6/2 avian leet costing 310 gc in fort with arms
6/3 dorf leet costing 460 gc in fort with arms

where human has actually stocked the least gc of any of them

[protector]

Explanation on the last point, for war kd who wont be stocking gc for long enough to matter, this doesnt affect them other than humans being lowest drafted oop and taking longest to be war ready. The 1k leet essentially prevents whore kds from using it entirely. ToG doesn't allow you to lower gold stocks by even close to enough to make up for the difference between dorf/avian leets. Dorf leet essentially costing sub 600gc with 140% BE (relatively)bonus on arms and an increased base income from BE. Compare this with human gaining +0% income from base with ToG and lower pezzy count(1.4x0.7=0.98(ToG x Humans/Dorfs Pezzie ratio = relative income)). It is also stuck with shyte BE from lower pezzy count, think 3 ppa less by midage, (120BE dorf vs 85 BE human while pumping is a joke)

This results in:
6/4 human leet costs 765 gc in fort with arms
6/2 avian leet costing 310 gc in fort with arms
6/3 dorf leet costing 460 gc in fort with arms

where human has actually stocked the least gc of any of them

You're comparing the elite of 3 totally different races and trying to make them equal purely on numbers.
Human is just not as good mainly because of the pop penalty, not because of the elite cost. Costs of troops are a temporary issue, the pop penalty is a permanent one. Once you get troops stacked enough, it doesnt matter if your elites are 500gc or 1000gc. And human shouldn't have an issue pumping elites and science with ToG

[Persain]

You're comparing the elite of 3 totally different races and trying to make them equal purely on numbers.
Human is just not as good mainly because of the pop penalty, not because of the elite cost. Costs of troops are a temporary issue, the pop penalty is a permanent one. Once you get troops stacked enough, it doesnt matter if your elites are 500gc or 1000gc. And human shouldn't have an issue pumping elites and science with ToG

Humans are mostly fine and can compete with orc/undead/dwarf/avain when both sides are drafted down to 4-5 peasants/acre. Cost of troops and time to pump just hurts them alot even if it is temporary it slows you down.

[crease]

Humans are mostly fine and can compete with orc/undead/dwarf/avain when both sides are drafted down to 4-5 peasants/acre. Cost of troops and time to pump just hurts them alot even if it is temporary it slows you down.

^This. Prot did you miss the calcs on actual income? a 10ppa avian has the same income as a 7ppa human even factoring in ToG, but it has to deal with 10% lower BE and double cost leet. Any use for human that isnt attacking is even less optimal due to natural thief resistance(CS), low BE and ToG being required to run decent army.

edit 1:Granted It has one major bonus in the 4 def leet, but that helps zero while youre whoring, once your pumping you can run 1-2less dspa but you got there 2 weeks later in age and already got powerplayed.

edit 2:This ofcourse assumes that human/avian would be running the same military strength to whore, what likely needs to happen is human needs to run 20% more pezzies than an avian to a similar number of those double cost leets with ToG so suddenly its 10 ppa avian vs 12 ppa human. Now you are 5 units/acre down in whore build.

Lol, guess humans wouldnt be fixed by a 750 leet after all. Thats not enough.

[padrez]

this age saddenes me on several levels.

first off, the superly overpowered combo avian/cleric. speed, huge pop growth, 50% military losses. wtf is that.

secondly, sage doesnt have any +sci effects, nor learn protection. and whatsup with the 4sci point/acre. thats cr*p.

third-ly?. humans. they are like the suckaz of the server. combo doesnt matter. they suck no matter what pers u use them with. im thinking of mentioning elves here too. and mystics. no double rune production is making all tms rune out of fuel really fast.

last but not least: t/ms are now very weak against attackers. this age off points for all attacking races were kept the same, but the def for all tms got decreased. thats... dang.

oh i forgot to start with imho. some will agree. some will not. idc. just fulfillin' my needz to be heard on da internet! :)

[Araqiel]

- Mystic losing double runes is pretty painful.
- Elves suck.
- Tactician ambush immunity is better left gone.
- Sage is totally useless.
- Bring back chastity.

[NoseBlood]

avian clerics is the sh!t
free draft is the sh!t
dorf 6/3 elites is the sh!t
humans needs to be redone completly
no ambush immunity is the sh!t
need x2 towers on mystic
rogues need the TD bonus like previus ages
sage needs the + sci effectivness back

[crease]

avian clerics is the sh!t
free draft is the sh!t
dorf 6/3 elites is the sh!t
humans needs to be redone completly
no ambush immunity is the sh!t
need x2 towers on mystic
rogues need the TD bonus like previus ages
sage needs the + sci effectivness back

Disagree on rogues and humans. Mystics definitely are bad without the rune production and humans just need a 700/750 leet to be competitive imo (as a whoring core)

[Jotun]

I got traded into a Faery/Mystic 3-4 weeks into age. Compared to previous experiences I gotta say playing this combo this age has been a serious downer :(

Since my KD got a few WW's under our belt, we got a bit of sciences, which sort of attracts a lot of unwanted attention which results in quite a few random learns. I keep 15-20% schools OOW so losses in sciences arent that bad, but Orc's still take a fair chunk. The real trouble is costs of retraining which is around 1.5mill per attack (In addition to sciences lost). This coupled with a lack of cash left for stealing (There's just less and less people and inactives to steal from), it makes it a real chore to play this combo.

Just aint no fun spending a lot of effort to build up defenses and science only to see 2-3 days effort gone with per attack :/
Wont be playing faery with the current mechanics again I think.

[Tox]

I think it's funny that we've turned Faeries into DEs of old.

[Shai]

Sage weak? Seriously?

I do agree human elites need to be lowerd to 750 gc or have the pop penalty gone. both the 1k elite cost and the pop penalty is tough to overcome unless ur a human sage with ALOT of sci.

[tras19]

I think it's funny that we've turned Faeries into DEs of old.

Hahaha lets just take that all the way and give fae rune free spells. That would solve the rune shortage issue as well :-P

[ciupi]

Sage should have sci prot back, that is all that sage needs

[Uhm hoi]

I went orc cleric this age along with half of the kingdom and I have to say, it's very enjoyable. Love the free draft (our halfers do to), extra kills on attacks, the massive gains, low troop losses and the ability to op. Chaining with a bunch of orcs is quite devastating too. The 25% hit to science is for some part offset by the 30% gains on attacks since I get massive amounts of books on learn attacks. I do agree that sages need some extra sci protection, right now they are just sitting ducks with all these learn randoms.

From my experience in wars with them, humans and undead are reduced from very strong and dangerous to a nuisance at most (we just laugh when we see a non warrior undead and when we do see a warrior undead, us orc clerics just feel superior in every way). Our kingdom's mystics have had trouble getting enough runes to use the higher cost spells like meteors, but we just learned from it and focused more on greeds and fireballs, and use they higher cost spells more sporadically. Also, elves and faeries are kinda equally good. Far from overpowered, but still useful to a kingdom. Halflings are very powerful this age.

I'm enjoying the changes a lot. We had quite some discussions about what kingdom setup to go with. There were advocates in the kingdom for almost all races and persona's and that fact alone means the changes have shaken everything up and can be considered succesful imho.