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Thread: Attackers need 104.???

  1. #1
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    Attackers need 104.???

    What is it again, for best gains?

    104.52?
    104.34?

    ???
    Live long and prosper

  2. #2
    Forum Addict tras19's Avatar
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    It doesnt have anything to do with gains. It only determines if your attack will fail or succeed. 104.1% Breaks from my knowledge
    Player History

    -Returned in Age 55: "Happy Grasslands" Undead Cleric in WE KC (M)
    -Age 56: "Cortez the Killer" Elf Mystic in WE KC (M)
    -Age 57 1st Half: "KC March of the Penguins" Avian Warrior in WE KC (M)
    -Age 57 2nd Half: "Granny Smith" Halfling Rogue in TFC
    -Age 58: "A Horse With No Name - America" Halfling Rogue in HRS Partial (S)
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    -Age 59 2nd Half: "Birthday Cake Remix" Avian Cleric in AC
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    -Age 60 1st Half: "Beaver" Elf Mystic in AC (M)
    -Age 60 2nd Half: "I don t want" Undead Tactician in Allstars
    -Age 61: "trizzle my wizzle" Undead Tactician in Allstars
    -Age 62: "Tras19 is amazed by midgets" Dwarf Sage in Beastblood (CROWN x 2)
    -Age 63 yr 1-12: "To learn his Elfabet" Avian Merchant in Beastblood
    -Age 63 yr 12-14: "Thanks for the death Flogger" Orc Tactician in Beastblood
    -Age 64 yr 1-6: "Lust and Thrust" Halfling Rogue in PewPew
    -Age 65: "back yet again" Elf Merchant in Old Skool (M)
    -Return again in Age 67: "Whimsyton" Elf Merchant in the ghetto
    -Age 68 1st Half: "This Girl is on Shire" Halfling Rogue in The Shirish Mafia (M)
    -Return Yet Again in Age 76 2nd Half: "Happy Grasslands" Dark Elf Paladin in BOL
    -Age 77: "?" Human Sage in ? (M)


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  3. #3
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    it is to negate the random factor of offense defense. If you send 4% more than the defense that you see from an accurate som, there is no chance of failing.

  4. #4
    Post Fiend JackRabbitSlim's Avatar
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    To my best recollection it is 104.04% of the enemy Defense at home from a 100% accurate SoM.
    That will guarantee you a victory every time.
    As far as effecting your gains, I think you are talking about the message you get when you over send by any more than is required.
    I don't think your gains are effected. Although I think it does effect the amount of kills you make or sustain yourself.
    I'm not real sure on this though.
    You should try to get Bishop to weigh in on this part of your question.

  5. #5
    007 licence to post Anri's Avatar
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    calc def*1.0431 = success

    mostly you can have good enough intel factors to send less then above the random factor

    Its not uncommon that we use 1.021
    #?

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  6. #6
    Post Demon
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    There is a maximum range of +-3.5% on both attacker's and defenders mod values. After this random factor is applied, the attacker must still have at least 97% of the defender's value to succeed the attack. Thus, sending 97% of the target's MD (from accurate SoM) gives a 50/50 chance of success vs. failure.

    Since, in most cases, *any* chance of failing the hit is unacceptable, the most relevant number is the guaranteed value, 1.04036 (1.04035... where the "first dot" is greater than 5 and so it rounds up), or 4.036% oversend. Since the game rounds at only 2 decimal places on the display, 104.04% is normally used. In theory rounding issues might mean this is unsafe, but never at a meaningful level - if you truly care, use 104.05%.


    Arni, of (almost) all people, would be expected to know how to attack, but his blathering about intel factors is meaningless - this is randomness inherent in the attack itself, not the intel. (Even when intel had randomness, this was still required - just then from a single SoM the best you could do was 7.26% oversend - but more intel helped cause you could use the most favorable. But non of that applies with perfect intel any more.)
    JackRabbitSlim is the only person to get it spot on correct so far.
    it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)

    Think Different

  7. #7
    Forum Addict makeo's Avatar
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    Ethan is right mathematically.
    Practically I wouldn't use that in core tho.
    102-103% in core, as the chances of it failing are tiny.
    Cow battles are different.
    Hope that resolves why Anri advocates different.

  8. #8
    Post Demon
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    Fair point, I use around 103% if I need to stretch for a double myself. Anri's strat may be good - what alarmed me was his implication that *intel* could lower the random factor - intel has nothing to do with it anymore since accurate intel is possible. Taking multiple SoT/SoM or any such won't change the target, and won't change the minimum oversend to be 100% sure.

    Making the *assumption* the +-3.5% random factors are both uniform, I've tried to work out the probability for any given %. Somewhat embarrassingly, despite being a math major and having taken grad level probability (a few years back now) I can't actually get the closed form function. Or more precisely, I get a closed form that is provably wrong, because one of the 3 known data points don't match (100% at 104.036%, 50% at 97%, and 0% at 92 or 93.something %). I do intent to go back for the PhD at some point, and this problem is on my to-do list when I do - gotta pass those comps, and this is about that level problem. (and you get like 5-10 to do in 3 hours - ouch!)
    it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)

    Think Different

  9. #9
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    http://utopia-game.com/wol/game/send_armies

    Total offensive points (Ratio to target defense) <- clickable

    http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...ting_An_Attack

    Calculating An Attack

    Modified Offense you need to send = (Target Def * 1.04036)
    Support email: utopiasupport@utopia-game.com <- please use this and don't just PM me| Account Deleted/Inactive | Utopia Facebook Page | #tactics <-- click to join IRC|
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  10. #10
    Forum Addict tras19's Avatar
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    boom. i rest my case at 104.1
    Player History

    -Returned in Age 55: "Happy Grasslands" Undead Cleric in WE KC (M)
    -Age 56: "Cortez the Killer" Elf Mystic in WE KC (M)
    -Age 57 1st Half: "KC March of the Penguins" Avian Warrior in WE KC (M)
    -Age 57 2nd Half: "Granny Smith" Halfling Rogue in TFC
    -Age 58: "A Horse With No Name - America" Halfling Rogue in HRS Partial (S)
    -Age 59 1st Half: "Birthday Cake Remix" Avian Cleric in HRS
    -Age 59 2nd Half: "Birthday Cake Remix" Avian Cleric in AC
    (S)
    -Age 60 1st Half: "Beaver" Elf Mystic in AC (M)
    -Age 60 2nd Half: "I don t want" Undead Tactician in Allstars
    -Age 61: "trizzle my wizzle" Undead Tactician in Allstars
    -Age 62: "Tras19 is amazed by midgets" Dwarf Sage in Beastblood (CROWN x 2)
    -Age 63 yr 1-12: "To learn his Elfabet" Avian Merchant in Beastblood
    -Age 63 yr 12-14: "Thanks for the death Flogger" Orc Tactician in Beastblood
    -Age 64 yr 1-6: "Lust and Thrust" Halfling Rogue in PewPew
    -Age 65: "back yet again" Elf Merchant in Old Skool (M)
    -Return again in Age 67: "Whimsyton" Elf Merchant in the ghetto
    -Age 68 1st Half: "This Girl is on Shire" Halfling Rogue in The Shirish Mafia (M)
    -Return Yet Again in Age 76 2nd Half: "Happy Grasslands" Dark Elf Paladin in BOL
    -Age 77: "?" Human Sage in ? (M)


    Noteworthy Achievments

    *** Age 62: Books of War ... KD Land Crown and KD NW Crown Winner with Beastblood ***
    *** Was a member of The Faery Circle, yet have never played Faery ***
    *** Have never had a province die except once when I let Flogger province sit me for 24 hours in a war ***

  11. #11
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    It's 1.0404. Some people just like playing the optional freak personality.

  12. #12
    Forum Addict makeo's Avatar
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    Some people realise that certain hits, IF they succeed, can turn a war, despite it being a 90% hit, and others persue the 100% hitting option that always loses. ;)

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