Need suggestions for an Avian Warrior with below average science.
What build would be most suited for war? Warring KD, making 8 hour attacks.
Need suggestions for an Avian Warrior with below average science.
What build would be most suited for war? Warring KD, making 8 hour attacks.
10%homes and/or 10%GS
8%farms
15%banks
10%TGs
10-15%guilds
7%towers
20%hospitals
10% WTs
2-3%dungeons
I played around that building/number depending on the kd that we are going to war.
Surely you'd need Rax to make an 8hr attack time unless you're using the -1hr option in the war room. 16hrs x 0.7 (Av) x 0.8 (war) is only 8.96hrs attack times, so near as damn it 9hrs.
How about?
Farms 8%
TGs 15%
Banks 15%
GS 20%
Guilds 8%
Towers 7%
Hospitals 17%
WTs 10%
We don't have much heavy attackers in our KD, so I always get chained in war, thus the need of high GS and Arms.
My concern is, are my banks too low? 15%? will that be enough to pay wages at 200%?
No need for rax, In war I have 8.06 hour attacks without them and -1(odd).
Any more input?
Banks are for oow.
GS are usually a waste of space on Avian, and don't use reduced attack time on Avian if you can avoid it.Originally Posted by Le_G
You need more TG, at least 20% and preferably 25%.
Homes in war? is the pop bonus worth it? as for BR, Avian already have a bonus to it so are they mandatory? I think the benefits are easily negligible. Correct me If I'm wrong :)
As a fireball defense, the extra 30% BR looks good on paper, but when you are down to 500 peasies it wont make no difference if you are repopulating 75 per tick (+15%) or 225 (+45%) not accounting the MS, storms and the odd fireball every tick....+ Chastity which everybody loves casting on us Avians.
Banks.
Zauper says Banks are for oow....what is the argument behind this? How would you fund dragons? Pay troops? Does this means you need to keep wages at 50%? Replace specs lost?
Training Grounds.
15% might be too low oow, but in war Warrior gets an additional +15% OME.
I might raise TGs to 20%, but don't think going to 25% is justified at 89% BE the extra 5% in TGs only add 3.64% OME...again, tell me if my line of reasoning is flawed here :)
Rax
I opt not to use them on Avian Warrior. We already have -30% Travel Time and I really see no need to have less than 8 hour attack times as a NON cleric, even while running 20% Hospitals and no banks as some suggested I would still be less efficient at keeping my troops alive and replacing the losses. Thoughts? I'd consider adding them for different island wars though, even if just 10%.
I agree, reduced attack times should only be used in order to make attack cycles fit with personal timetable.
GS
Why would you say these are wasted space? Low BE?
I need to use them since it's a KD wide strategy due to our lower number of heavy hitters. I don't want to be first to get chained cos I was the only one not having them :P
Thanks for the input so far guys! Keep it coming! :)
If you build Homes on an attacker, it is presumed that you also have time to pump elites. The best way to make use of Homes' extra population is to fill them with trained elites, defense specs, and thieves. The birthrates bonus is just a nice fringe benefit. The BE effects of Homes only take effect if the goal is to emphasize one or two building types, in this case TG.
Provinces preparing for war should have high draft rate and low peasants. There is no economy to modify, so banks do very little for attackers. It is much better to set up a province that can take more acres and do more economic damage to the target; getting more peasants and doing more damage is a net economic benefit opposed to the small income boost banks provide. 5-10% banks is sufficient.Banks.
Zauper says Banks are for oow....what is the argument behind this? How would you fund dragons? Pay troops? Does this means you need to keep wages at 50%? Replace specs lost?
You will want to overbuild training grounds in order to account for incoming acres.Training Grounds.
15% might be too low oow, but in war Warrior gets an additional +15% OME.
I might raise TGs to 20%, but don't think going to 25% is justified at 89% BE the extra 5% in TGs only add 3.64% OME...again, tell me if my line of reasoning is flawed here :)
There is never such a thing as too much OME mods, only considerations that other buildings might be better. For Avian (and Orcs and Undeads), high offense is optimal for exploiting your race's inherent bonuses, and defensive buildings are generally less valuable.
It is much better to build barracks and add hours than to reduce hours.Rax
I opt not to use them on Avian Warrior. We already have -30% Travel Time and I really see no need to have less than 8 hour attack times as a NON cleric, even while running 20% Hospitals and no banks as some suggested I would still be less efficient at keeping my troops alive and replacing the losses. Thoughts? I'd consider adding them for different island wars though, even if just 10%.
I agree, reduced attack times should only be used in order to make attack cycles fit with personal timetable.
GS aren't really useful unless you desperately want to make sure a target province isn't getting chained. Avians and Undead are two of the most chain-resilient races, so you would benefit if the landchains happen there instead of against defensive provinces like Halfling.GS
Why would you say these are wasted space? Low BE?
I need to use them since it's a KD wide strategy due to our lower number of heavy hitters. I don't want to be first to get chained cos I was the only one not having them :P
Thanks for the input so far guys! Keep it coming! :)
GS are more useful to build during war, when acre control is more important for locking up a war win. Early war, GS aren't that good, especially 10-15% gs.
There are too many variables to say, and if your kingdom insists on GS then you should probably build them. I would only bother if I knew for certain I was going to be a high-value chain target, otherwise I would gladly take a chain before a Halfling or Faery.
On the side of GS are good bet. And no one mentioned war science. GS + Attack Time + War Science should be the holy trinity of staying in acres. If you get chained every war, WT prob aren't needed as much why waste stealth on person that is just going to get chained.
8% farms
15% banks
20% tg
20% gs
20% hospitals
10% guilds
7% towers
Shrug.
Rough build I used last age as Avian/Cleric, with some modifications:
25% tg
25% barracks
10% hospitals
10% wt
5% farms
5% dungeons
10% guilds
5% towers
5% banks
Alternatively, swap the barracks for Homes, Thief Dens, extra Hospitals, GS or some other combination of buildings. 25% barracks is about what is necessary for Avian to get 8 hour base attack times out of Aggressive stance, but it could easily be lower or nonexistent.
Your best defense against an early chain is going to be a better return time, and the ability to take acres better. GS are only going to blunt a few hits, especially with low defense. GS become more useful in longer wars, when chains start to break down due to dying attackers and greater range differences, and acre control becomes a greater factor.
Loving the input and opinions this thread has generated so far :)
Lets keep in mind that this is a "war Only" situation.
Thanks for all the clarifications noobium!
Al right, I will experiment with 15% homes this war and set my draft to 70%, this should give me an extra 2k elites.If you build Homes on an attacker, it is presumed that you also have time to pump elites. The best way to make use of Homes' extra population is to fill them with trained elites, defense specs, and thieves. The birthrates bonus is just a nice fringe benefit. The BE effects of Homes only take effect if the goal is to emphasize one or two building types, in this case TG.
I'm starting to agree on this point. It's the same as analogy with peasants and BR that I argued with earlier. Even with 25% bank during war, it is simply insufficient. So I will run with Homes and more TGs with alternating pay rate between 100 and 200% and fewer banks next war and see how it goes. Yes Dealing more damage to the enemy KD is more important in the long run than being able to replace 1/3 of the army lost.Provinces preparing for war should have high draft rate and low peasants. There is no economy to modify, so banks do very little for attackers. It is much better to set up a province that can take more acres and do more economic damage to the target; getting more peasants and doing more damage is a net economic benefit opposed to the small income boost banks provide. 5-10% banks is sufficient.
You will want to overbuild training grounds in order to account for incoming acres.
There is never such a thing as too much OME mods, only considerations that other buildings might be better. For Avian (and Orcs and Undeads), high offense is optimal for exploiting your race's inherent bonuses, and defensive buildings are generally less valuable.I'm sold on this point now.It is much better to build barracks and add hours than to reduce hours.
Hehe, WTs would be useful for fighting Getho Noobs then :D Totally agree about the Holy trinity, it's tried and tested :)kazinji
On the side of GS are good bet. And no one mentioned war science. GS + Attack Time + War Science should be the holy trinity of staying in acres. If you get chained every war, WT prob aren't needed as much why waste stealth on person that is just going to get chained.
Thief Dens.....hmmm 2 TPA raw and kinda crap sci...well It's not a bad idea for keeping myself supplemented on stolen Gold.Rough build I used last age as Avian/Cleric, with some modifications:
25% tg
25% barracks
10% hospitals
10% wt
5% farms
5% dungeons
10% guilds
5% towers
5% banks
Alternatively, swap the barracks for Homes, Thief Dens, extra Hospitals, GS or some other combination of buildings. 25% barracks is about what is necessary for Avian to get 8 hour base attack times out of Aggressive stance, but it could easily be lower or nonexistent.
Your best defense against an early chain is going to be a better return time, and the ability to take acres better. GS are only going to blunt a few hits, especially with low defense. GS become more useful in longer wars, when chains start to break down due to dying attackers and greater range differences, and acre control becomes a greater factor.
As for GS, you make a good point about not having them at the start of the war since it might be some time (24 - 48 hours into war) until my turn comes up as I try not to be the attacker with the most off and least deff.
So here is my idea of a war build after all the ideas that went around here:
Farms 8%
Homes 15%
Banks 15%
TGs 22%
Rax 10%
Guilds 8%
Towers 7%
Hosps 15%
Draft at 70%
Wages at 200% start of war, drop to 100% when Greed and Riots kick in.
I can drop banks by 5% and get another 3% off Guilds/Towers, so I could move these 8% later when needed, either more TGs/Rax or Hospital.
After 24 hours in war I can also drop the 10% Rax and maybe go 18% GS. or 25% TGs and 15% GS depending on the situation.
Suggestions are still welcome :)
You're running 15% too many banks.
Probably too many towers as well.
Seriously -- banks are bad in war because you shouldn't have many peasants*. Keeping homes in war runs into a similar problem; you generally would want to raze them out and overpop yourself a little but get more war buildings.
*generally true, though obviously there are some provs where you would want peasants.
You should also start with GS, and not count on having the cash to rebuild in war.
Last edited by Zauper; 03-02-2014 at 01:57.
I agree
Not on the side of homes in a war build, when they disappear you just even more overpopped. And thats 2k more troops you have to pay. And 2k more troops you have to find room for when you seriously overpopped and have to release to get army out.
As avian with 30% less attack times. That makes Rax 30% less effective as a building also.
More war buildings?
10% Farms
25% TG
15% Rax
25% GS
25% Hospitals
Who needs magic, phiff.
Last edited by kazinji; 03-02-2014 at 05:01.
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