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Thread: Mods/Staff should not play

  1. #1
    Post Fiend JackRabbitSlim's Avatar
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    Mods/Staff should not play

    @ Bishop................I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM THAT NO ONE SEEMS TO WANT TO SPEAK TO. I THINK PEOPLE MAY BE AFRAID OF BEING BANNED FOR QUESTIONING AUTHORITY.

    In all fairness, this is one thread that you should try to NOT post in.
    You are a member of one of the Kingdoms in question AND a Moderator.
    This just shows that Mods should NOT play the game!
    I know this is just my opinion and that doesn't mean much in the eyes of the Mods, but if you are going to play the game, there should be a system of checks and balances that protects the integrity of the game.
    It just seems unfair that someone that can delete accounts and wipe out Forum posts and whatever else a Moderator can do, should still be allowed to participate in the game.
    It puts alot of power in the hands of a potential player.
    Maybe make it to where the Mod playing cannot interfere in anything related to their own Kingdom or those enemies their Kingdom faces during a particular Age.
    Or maybe it should stretch over several Ages to keep revenge issues from coming up.
    I can think of hundreds of situations where this could be abused, and I'm just a player with very little computer skills and even less knowledge of the game mechanics. Just think of the situations I could ponder if you added in the Knowledge of a Moderator.
    I hope you see my point and this post doesn't get deleted.
    I also hope something changes because of this post!!


    P.S.- If you will look at the timestamp where Bishops Edits each post, you will see that he edited the one zaza questioned at 9:18. Then zaza posted his remark about "why edit that and not the retard post" at 10:03. Then the retard post was edited by Bishop at 10:35. Follow the timeline and it points directly to my point about the elephant in the room. What I mean by that is this; He edited a post made AGAINST someone in his Kingdom, but didn't edit one BY someone in his Kingdom until called out to do so. And even chastised zaza for calling him on it with his "back seat moderating" comment. This clearly helps make the point of needing some rules to rein in the Mods power or at least stop them from dealing with things related to them as a player or their Kingdoms.
    Last edited by JackRabbitSlim; 11-02-2014 at 09:00.

  2. #2
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    Mods/devs not playing the game is the worst it can happen in a game. Also 95% of game mechanics is on wiki

  3. #3
    007 licence to post Anri's Avatar
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    Bishop needs to play the game. The problem is the crowd that he choose to play with. If they have any influence on him were doomed. He should play anon with a fake nick imo.
    #?

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  4. #4
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    P.S.- If you will look at the timestamp where Bishops Edits each post, you will see that he edited the one zaza questioned at 9:18. Then zaza posted his remark about "why edit that and not the retard post" at 10:03. Then the retard post was edited by Bishop at 10:35. Follow the timeline and it points directly to my point about the elephant in the room. What I mean by that is this; He edited a post made AGAINST someone in his Kingdom, but didn't edit one BY someone in his Kingdom until called out to do so.
    A moderator cant possibly read all posts in every thread in this forum this why there is a report post function so us the community can help out the moderators in their job. As is explained, a lot of your posts would be unecessary if you just bothered to read what people write.

    Also a moderator has no power ingame, a moderators job is to watch over the forums.


    Anri you should refrain from commenting on isses you have no clue about. You're biased opinion about the crowd he plays with has no relevancy.

  5. #5
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    Korp,

    It is not an issue of true power. It is likely an issue pf perceived power. Just as neutral parties in every arena are often required to avoid the appearance of bias or impropriety, it may also be appropriate here.

    /me shrugs.

    Regardless of his power or lack thereof in the actual game, I think it is fair to say that Bishop and the other moderators have a large influence on the game and how it develops because it is they who more directly interface with the developers and it is likely they who filter all the feedback from this forum to help shape adoption of suggestions, modifications to mechanics, and a range of other things as well. Thus, to say that he has no power ingame is a gross over-simplification.

    I think Bishop does have some minor editing/corrective functions that he can use ingame to fix minor problems (nothing game mechanic related). I trust him to be fair with their use and application. Someone should have those powers and there are no problems, imho, that he has them.

    Bishop and the other moderators, like everyone else, have their own biases and anyone who thinks that rulings are completely impartial is just not living in reality. Just like judges in court do not rule free from bias. Anyone who tells you differently has never tried a case. that said, someone has to do it and whining about it after the fact is silly.

    *edit* to continue

    I have had my own disagreements with the moderators. When you disagree you tell them that you disagree. They say something like "I have ruled, its done" and you say OK. That's how things work. If your boss makes a decision, and you disagree, you tell him/her you disagree, then they consider it a moment and either affirm or change their decision, then everyone moves on. If you are disrespectful when you do that, you get fired. Why would anyone think things work differently here or follow idealized principles of impartiality that are not based in reality? Because its the internet? This is the place where the worst in people is almost always released because of a (false) perception of anonymity.

    So, in short, Bishop does what he can, rules as he must, and I think will reconsider if it is mentioned in a respectful way. Being snarky when you want him to reconsider is unlikely to get you a desired result because no one likes that and I am sure he gets bothered enough even with our reduced player base. We collectively trust him to just make decisions because someone has to and he has not been the worst anyone has seen. Deal with it, move on.
    Last edited by Sheister; 11-02-2014 at 12:29.

  6. #6
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    Korp,

    It is not an issue of true power. It is likely an issue pf perceived power. Just as neutral parties in every arena are often required to avoid the appearance of bias or impropriety, it may also be appropriate here.

    /me shrugs.

    Regardless of his power or lack thereof in the actual game, I think it is fair to say that Bishop and the other moderators have a large influence on the game and how it develops because it is they who more directly interface with the developers and it is likely they who filter all the feedback from this forum to help shape adoption of suggestions, modifications to mechanics, and a range of other things as well. Thus, to say that he has no power ingame is a gross over-simplification.

    I think Bishop does have some minor editing/corrective functions that he can use ingame to fix minor problems (nothing game mechanic related). I trust him to be fair with their use and application. Someone should have those powers and there are no problems, imho, that he has them.

    Bishop and the other moderators, like everyone else, have their own biases and anyone who thinks that rulings are completely impartial is just not living in reality. Just like judges in court do not rule free from bias. Anyone who tells you differently has never tried a case. that said, someone has to do it and whining about it after the fact is silly.
    The moderator has no influnece at all over ingame matters. Neither Palem or DHaran whos ben MIA for awhile has any contact at all with the game devs the only one that holds any power is Bishop and hes a game support as the title states.

  7. #7
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    yes, he is a moderator who has some influence over game matters. that is not at all to suggest he has EVER used his limited power inappropriately. I doubt he ever has or will.

    I also think you are naive if you think moderators have no influence over game matters because they do not directly interface with the game.

    If you think that, then I would suggest that you also think unlimited campaign donations are Ok and that a company who gives a political candidate $2M in funding for their re-election has NO INFLUENCE WHATSOEVER!!

    The moderators "work" for the devs (if only on a volunteer basis) and I am sure that in whatever secret moderator place they go, things are discussed and the dev's review it and the devs give their opinions more weight than those of you or I or some newer player who just shows up today. That is natural and (I think) correct. I would give the moderators' opinions more weight.

  8. #8
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    yes, he is a moderator who has some influence over game matters. that is not at all to suggest he has EVER used his limited power inappropriately. I doubt he ever has or will.

    I also think you are naive if you think moderators have no influence over game matters because they do not directly interface with the game.

    If you think that, then I would suggest that you also think unlimited campaign donations are Ok and that a company who gives a political candidate $2M in funding for their re-election has NO INFLUENCE WHATSOEVER!!

    The moderators "work" for the devs (if only on a volunteer basis) and I am sure that in whatever secret moderator place they go, things are discussed and the dev's review it and the devs give their opinions more weight than those of you or I or some newer player who just shows up today. That is natural and (I think) correct. I would give the moderators' opinions more weight.
    Hes not a moderator, i just told you that still you insist to call him a moderator why? If you doubt he go check below his nick what does it say there? Moderator or *gasp* Game support? He has on several ocassions for ****s and giggle, he did delete Mansoor once (should check out that thread its hilarious).

    Okey explain how Palem has any influence over game matters? Besides by stupid people that dont know what a moderator is.

    Now you are just being stupid, whats similarites in these cases? The companys has a agenda with their donations and has the contact between the political candidate and themselves. Would the moderators be the companies and the devs the political candidate? Cause there is no communcation between those two partys.

    What you believe is irrelevant what the facts are more interesting and the facts are their is no communcation between moderators and devs the only communication is between Bishop and the devs and as we already concluded hes not a moderator. So in the end you are wrong and I am right.

  9. #9
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    Bishop also moderates these forums, thus, while he is also something more he is also a moderator.

    Once again, to suggest that developers do not give more weight to moderators than the regular player base is (imho) myopic.

    You can try to be as obnoxious in your postings as you wish Korp, but being obnoxious does not make your right. Palem has influence over game matters in a subtle way in that he can interact on these forums on a level that we can't. Same with DHaran if he wishes to. They have been elevated to "staff" positions because in someone's judgment they are more trustworthy than you or I. Why on earth would you not think that those higher up in the work flow of the game administration would not give their opinions more weight? Do you not give more weight to opinions of those you trust over some guy on the street?

    Everyone has an agenda. Your offensive posting aside (and you may thank me for not reporting your post as being offensive and derogatory to another user <3), to suggest that anyone does not have some agenda is myopic. His agenda could be to make the game as good as it could possibly be. It could be WORLD DOMINATION THROUGH ONLINE GAMING RAWR!!! (though I doubt that). I think you are willfully blind if you think the devs do not read any posts by the moderators in their moderator section of the forums. The devs occasionally read regular posts here. Why on earth would you think that they do not read the administrative level posts in these forums? I promise you there is a section of these forums that only moderators and above can read and there are posts there that the devs review. Therefore, moderators can interact with the devs (perhaps not in direct communication, but it is still an interaction) in ways you and I can't.

    You assume facts not in evidence based on a fairy tale belief that there is a wall between the devs and those who have gained at least a certain level of trust in the game. I assume facts not in evidence based on my experience as a moderator in several gaming communities. Neither of us have direct evidence, but I tend to find my own more plausible. That said, I still do not go out of my way to use abraisive or offensive language as you do Korp. Please try to use argumentation instead of "e-tough guy" posting in the future.

    All I am saying is that you are a bit myopic to believe that the devs do not pay more attention to the opinions of moderators and staff than the opinions of the community at large. Anyone who thinks about structure in communities for even 5 seconds should clearly see the sense in that and not have to shoot their e-mouths off in such a manner as you routinely choose to do.

    I am not saying that there is anything improper, immoral, or in anyway wrong with the system. I am not critical of anyone or their role. I am merely pointing out that your views are a likely gross oversimplification of the way in which working groups interact in an organization. Please self moderate your future replies to me so that I don't feel the itch to click the triangle.

    **second edit**

    from the bottom of the forum page list:

    Forum Information and Options
    Moderators of this Forum

    Bishop
    DHaran
    Palem
    Last edited by Sheister; 11-02-2014 at 13:16. Reason: minor typo correction, added information for Korp

  10. #10
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    All I am saying is that you are a bit myopic to believe that the devs do not pay more attention to the opinions of moderators and staff than the opinions of the community at large. Anyone who thinks about structure in communities for even 5 seconds should clearly see the sense in that and not have to shoot their e-mouths off in such a manner as you routinely choose to do.
    Or I just know more than you :) You seem to argue from willfull ignorance how you think things should be.

    I am not saying that there is anything improper, immoral, or in anyway wrong with the system. I am not critical of anyone or their role. I am merely pointing out that your views are a likely gross oversimplification of the way in which working groups interact in an organization. Please self moderate your future replies to me so that I don't feel the itch to click the triangle.
    Go ahead, i doubt you dare though since you just threaten with it.
    Last edited by Korp; 11-02-2014 at 13:32.

  11. #11
    Post Fiend JackRabbitSlim's Avatar
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    OMG!
    I was not trying to start all of this.
    I do think Bishop does his job, for the most part, in a fair and impartial way.
    BUT, with that being said, a person in his position, has the ability to seriously abuse their position.
    I don't know if he is able to delete accounts for cheating, but I think he can.
    If not, then he can suggest deletions to Game Developers and again, I'm sure deletions would follow rather quickly.
    I did read an idea posted that sounded reasonable.
    If Mods, or whatever title you would give to Palem, Bishop and DHaran, are going to play the game, then they should play it anon. This would not stop their ability to influence the game, but it would stop the pressure others might put on them to influence the game. It is a step in the right direction.
    Again, I want to say that I think the Mods have all played the game fairly and without undue influence, to my knowledge.
    It just seems strange that a person that can delete accounts, or have them deleted, should get involved in game issues like hitting in to a War or any other discussion where you have to take sides other than the side of the game rules.
    There is no game rule that deals with hitting in to wars, so I think Bishop should refrain from stating any opinion on the matter. Just to keep things looking proper and fair.
    When one of the Mods speaks, it is assumed that they have the backing of the rules and the Game Developers.
    That is a very heavy burden.
    It should not be cast around lightly, if at all.

    P.S.- Now Bishop's does not say "Moderator", but here is Palems:

    Palem
    Palem is offline
    Moderator for:
    Utopia

    And here is DHarans:

    DHaran
    DHaran is offline
    Moderator for:
    Utopia
    Last edited by JackRabbitSlim; 11-02-2014 at 13:42.

  12. #12
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    Or I just know more than you :) You seem to argue from willfull ignorance how you think things should be.
    you may know more than me, and that's good for you. If you know more than me, then share your wealth of knowledge. I am arguing from my experience of how things are in every kingdom, bbs, gaming community, university, and company that I have ever had a hand in the administration of. Based on the comments of many posters, I suspect I am not alone in my belief that what I describe is the norm and therefore is not an outlandish or unreasonable guess.


    Go ahead, i doubt you dare though since you just threaten with it.
    I never do such things as long as people respond to a request to behave. Thank you for your compliance.


    JackRabbitSlim,

    I don't think you started anything. Really people start just opining on the role of moderators and staff in the game. Its not that big a deal as long as everyone is respectful about it. People have been railing about bishop, palem and dharan since I returned (age 49) and probably before that. It is (generally) unreasonable and I suspect that it is their ranting nature that engenders Korp's vitriol. That said, it is true that the staff could be a little more careful in their appearance of propriety, but for a largely volunteer position, I am not certain it is appropriate to hold them to some professional standard since we are not going to pay them.

    Think of it this way, do the parents that jump up and down and scream at the ref in a little league match have your respect? Maybe the ref even gets paid a few bucks to call the game, but seriously, do you think they get paid well enough to take the abuse some people dish out their way? I don't. So, maybe they make a few lousy calls, but at least there is a structure game that we can enjoy which otherwise would just be a bunch of kids running around with little interest. When was the last time you pulled out a folding chair to watch kids play outside your front porch? (other than watching your own because you are a parent....)
    Last edited by Sheister; 11-02-2014 at 14:04.

  13. #13
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    BUT, with that being said, a person in his position, has the ability to seriously abuse their position.
    That applies to every person in the world that has some kind of power...

    I don't know if he is able to delete accounts for cheating, but I think he can.
    He can.

    If Mods, or whatever title you would give to Palem, Bishop and DHaran, are going to play the game, then they should play it anon. This would not stop their ability to influence the game, but it would stop the pressure others might put on them to influence the game. It is a step in the right direction.
    Neither Palem nor DHaran plays the game anymore, either way they have no power. I think someone that has direct contact with the devs should play the game so they have some kind of person that knows and can relate to the suggestions that are posted.

    It just seems strange that a person that can delete accounts, or have them deleted, should get involved in game issues like hitting in to a War or any other discussion where you have to take sides other than the side of the game rules.
    Hitting into wars isnt against any rules, its just a matter of what a person thinks is ethical or not.

    When one of the Mods speaks, it is assumed that they have the backing of the rules and the Game Developers.
    No, its been stated several times in these forums that the moderators only job and power is to make sure the forums are clean and good atmosphere.

  14. #14
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    you may know more than me, and that's good for you. If you know more than me, then share your wealth of knowledge. I am arguing from my experience of how things are in every kingdom, bbs, gaming community, university, and company that I have ever had a hand in the administration of. Based on the comments of most comments, I suspect I am not alone in my belief that what I describe is the norm and therefore is not an outlandish or unreasonable guess.



    I never do such things as long as people respond to a request to behave. Thank you for your compliance.

    I do but you seem to argue against what I say by principle alone that you think you know the best so its hard to share knowledge when the people arent willing to take in the infromation.

  15. #15
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    I do but you seem to argue against what I say by principle alone that you think you know the best so its hard to share knowledge when the people arent willing to take in the infromation.
    This is often the argument (not to take this thread on yet ANOTHER tangent) raised by people when they explain why no one teaches in this game anymore. However, when was the last time you or anyone took instruction from someone who was abusive to them?
    Last edited by Sheister; 11-02-2014 at 14:32.

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