0 guild and tower strat

[substratum]

Ok.

So this is a strategy for attackers only.

Out of war you pump wizards as you see fit. You are more than welcome to run say 1 WPA raw or even 3 WPA raw. Doesn't really matter.

Why have any guilds or towers as an attacker? If a mage wants a piece of you there is very little you can do to stop it (unless you are a dwarf when you can reflect). Why not just run other buildings that you can benefit from?

At least as an attacker you can run WT's to stop a theif. But there is nothing you can do to stop a mage. Yes you can maybe stop 1 or 2 attempts per MS but at the end of the day who really cares? I'd rather run 20% rax and 10% forts. Get 20% faster attack times and 10% def bonus. That is more than MP can give you.

thoughts anyone?

[Runefire]

Ok.

So this is a strategy for attackers only.

Out of war you pump wizards as you see fit. You are more than welcome to run say 1 WPA raw or even 3 WPA raw. Doesn't really matter.

Why have any guilds or towers as an attacker? If a mage wants a piece of you there is very little you can do to stop it (unless you are a dwarf when you can reflect). Why not just run other buildings that you can benefit from?

At least as an attacker you can run WT's to stop a theif. But there is nothing you can do to stop a mage. Yes you can maybe stop 1 or 2 attempts per MS but at the end of the day who really cares? I'd rather run 20% rax and 10% forts. Get 20% faster attack times and 10% def bonus. That is more than MP can give you.

thoughts anyone?

If all you are casting is MP, then maybe that is a valid option. But there are more spells that are good options for attackers, for example Inspire Army, Fertile Lands, Natures Blessing, Patriotism, Bloodlust, Love and Peace, Reflect Magic, Mystic Vortex.

[crease]

runes provide alot of things, not just 5% defence. rofl.

They:
-decrease troops costs, which is a MASSIVE deal when high draft.
-decrease drafting costs, cause you can draft the same number of troops on a lower draft rate thus less per sold.
-decrease farm requirements
-shorten build time
-Prevent storm/drought
-Increase peasant growth.
Plus racials.

'ave fun

[substratum]

As I said it is just an idea.

For an Undead this makes much much more sense as there is far less that you can do as a "mage"

Plus this is only a strat for War. Not an overall strategy.

[Felixier]

You used in your example 20% tax and 10% forts. Attackers shouldn't be dedicating 30% land to guilds and towers, if you are then you are an A/m. Attacker going to war you can go about 5-8% guilds, 5-8% towers and you'll be just fine. Completely ignoring these two buildings especially as an undead does seem short sighted because you can't even steal runes which are always in limited supply. Can you run 0-0? Sure. But the self spells listed above is more than enough reason to keep 10-15% of your buildings in the magic department.

[Bukharistan]

My experience tells me that with 5% you might aswell take 0%. I"m failing like 70% of my spells on 5% guilds. At 12-13% guilds I fail about 10% perhaps. I don't know the exact formula's but this is just from experience. Think self-spells come in really handy during wars. RM is very powerful, MP might be a bit of a waste though, unless you run high def. Normally our kd holds 90+ opa and about 30 dpa, so the 5% is only 1.5 extra dpa, not really worth it IMO.

If you're fighting an UD kd NB is really needed, and with 5% guilds you're going to need like 20-25 tries before it's gone.

[Darkz Azn]

lol ... do u even get ll chain? odd

[kazinji]

If you get chained a lot yes, this can be a very good strat, don't waste mana/stealth on a chain target. Friend last age as a undead cleric was chained every war. Usually came out even or little ahead with 50+ hits in min time. Buildings were something like this:

25% TG
25% Rax
25% GS
15% Stables
10% float

Stables were ditched as new land came in for core buildings. War Science, never have enough. oow all science was put into War, and learn attacks to fill in the rest. When your chained in war, war science goes thru the roof. All hits become max gain hits.

[2Utopian]

@OP you can be successful without guilds and towers, it is far from crippling and does not mean you can't be useful casting spells. As an undead imo the biggest loss from your self spell book will be town watch for population control pre chain. Since nobody cares what I think here is another thread on the matter:

http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...s-not-a-choice

lol ... do u even get ll chain? odd

Do you even get LL chain? 0% guilds has nothing to do with success of combat spells like LL or fireballs or MV, odd.

[noobium]

If I'm chained, then I usually won't bother rebuilding guilds. As a stable province, guilds are way too valuable to not use. If I'm Undead I definitely want guilds for Town Watch.

Towers depend on how many runes I can stockpile and how much my kingdom can produce. Usually a kingdom's stockpile and stealable runes can supply a kingdom for 24 hours, and after that incoming towers should be ready. If big provinces cannot spare the acres to build towers then it's likely that I will just mass-build towers and aid the excess... as long as I can quad/quint, I can usually survive without a lot of other building types, and FB/Nado/LL are doing significant damage compared to my attacks.

If I'm Undead, I'm playing my province with good channeling science and the aim of unloading offensive magic the moment anyone decides to chain me, since the thief option is locked off to me. Having better magic defense from other chained guys is an added bonus. While guilds are not strictly speaking necessary for this, I'm already playing a weakish mage. If I don't get chained, then I would have enough wpa to cast low-level duration magic, which requires guilds to be effective.

Also - there simply aren't that many useful build options for Undead, so setting aside 10-20% of acreage for magic buildings is not that much to ask. I could only see skimping on guilds if there is a very high likelihood I will be chained or opped immediately, and I need lots of acres for a heavily defensive build.

[2Utopian]

I completely agree is noobium on town watch, it is easily your biggest loss without guilds.

[tetley]

What you gain from this depends on your race to some extent.
Quick feet is relevant.
Bloodlust is decent if you are an orc.
Sometimes Fana can be what breaks a big target.
As an attacker you may be able to fireball other fat attackers if you have decent WPA.
The point of having guilds and towers isn't to stop enemy mages.

[Hollopoint]

Id run guilds and towers as an attacker. For maintenence spells in the beginning and as you get chained, you become a hilariously powerful LL or fireball machine. Great way to add the extra mage power to a attacker heavy KD or even give your mages some support. any high WPA province that isn't fire balling is pretty much wasting valuable time at low acres.

[Darkz Azn]

0 guild = no wpa = you are nub

get LL chained ... rofl ...

[2Utopian]

Why do we continue to imply guilds are needed to LL or FB?