Sabotage vs. Expose thieves

[calamity]

Does anybody know if Expose Thieves is governed by war/intraKD/NW penalties?
Does Sabotage Wizards take those into account?

Running some tests intra-kg post war.

Sabotage yielded a 1% mana burn - 100% stealth -> 99% stealth -> 98% stealth
Expose thieves yielded an 18%, then followed with a 17%. 100% mana -> 65%

Targets NW = 375K
Aggressor NW = 160K

Going to run additional tests outside of war, but I'm interested to know if the Sabotage Wizards yield is just that horrible or possibly bug? or maybe Expose thieves doesn't take the same things into account as Sab does.

[Palem]

1. I wouldn't test op effects intra-kd. Too many factors are messed with intra-kd

2. IIRC, sending more thieves results in better effects for Sab Wiz. When we tested it we got really nasty effects with both ops.

[calamity]

Ah thanks,

Forgot about # of thieves sent.

[Bishop]

Intra kd thief ops are not comparable to non intra kd thief ops. Because thievery can result in a transfer of resources there are penalties attached intra kd to some (all?) thief ops.

[Dakke]

Also you cannot try intra kd thief ops in post war. Because your ops will receive the war penalty (your kingdom are not a kingdom you are considered in war with).

Try do a intra-kd SoT with 10% thieves in post war... Notice that you will get an inaccurate SoT (unless you have "the tactician" personality).

Also... The NW difference are huge. It have some effect on most spells and ops.

[noobium]

You have to send significant thieves to get good returns on Sabotage Wizards. I don't know the exact gains but the intra-kd tests I did suggest sending 1-2 of your tpa depending on how much mana is there to take. Sending too few thieves means that the op will remove no mana, and thus is worthless.

The cap for Sabotage wizards is pretty close to what expose thieves takes, so yeah it's pretty useful for stalling offensive spellcasters, particularly if they are saving mana for nightmare runs.

[topsy's revenge]

Intra kd thief ops are not comparable to non intra kd thief ops. Because thievery can result in a transfer of resources there are penalties attached intra kd to some (all?) thief ops.

there's a penalty to some but not all.