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Thread: Kingdom level strategy age 61

  1. #1
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    Kingdom level strategy age 61

    New age approaching, and would like to keep this topic continuing. Create a cohesive kingdom level strategy based on age 61 changes for others to discuss. Adjust discussion after final changes come about.

    Conditions: Activity and player skill being equal.

    Goal: To enhance the playerbases' thought process on kd level strategy through exchange of ideas, and hopefully increase the competitiveness from the bottom up.

  2. #2
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    After a quick look i'd say there are a very large number of viable setups all of which could be quite good based on how you use them. There are also some cheesy ones that you could also try. However:
    Growth KD that can generate CF's: 20 human/wh, 3 elf/myst, 2 fae/wh
    Growth KD that needs to war early/late but will also have some down time mid-age: 12 ud/tact, 8 elf/wh/merch, 2 fae/wh, 3 elf/myst
    War KD that has good coordination: 12 ud/tact, 9 elf/wh, 4 elf/myst
    War KD that has poor coordination: 15 ud/tact, 6 half/wh, 4 elf/myst
    Growth KD that can't generate cf's: Will see :)

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    With the new changes accounted for, the answer I have is similar to before:

    Human core, probably with Cleric personality
    Undead heavy attackers, with either Tactician or Warrior
    Elf mystics to cover MS

    While Dwarf is now usable and more noob-friendly than Human, Human with more money has all the advantages it had this age and then some. Since Human can cast ToG regardless of personality, they can pick a different personality - most likely Cleric. Most personalities are nerfed compared to Merchant.

    The only difference now is that Faeries are a lot better in ghettoland, and as mentioned Dwarf is a viable but poorer alternative to Human. You would still want enough strong offensive provinces in order to force kingdoms to train extra defense, and the best race for doing that is still Undead with Tactician or Warrior personality. (While Undead Merchant is likely better for growth, Undeads themselves are not great money makers and those Merchant advantages are lost in most wars, as you would still want Undeads to take the brunt of early attacks if at all possible.)

    Orcs don't have enough durability to account for those added losses and the science penalty still sucks. Relative to Undead they took a drop for the most part, but Orcs and Undeads are still similar enough in function to be used in tandem.

    Avians are junk and not worth it unless you have a really good reason.

    Faeries with Mystic, Rogue, or Sage personality are effective enough. Faery/Mystic might make a viable substitute for Elf/Mystic, but Elf is going to land MS more reliably. Human/Mystic is still a playable alternative to Elf as well for the same reasons as before.

    Halfling took a boost in stock largely due to the weakening of attacker personalities, but Faery spellbook and damage mods are still so much better. Like Avians, to play Halflings you have to be able to make an actually good case for their presence. I've been in many a low-tier kingdom and I have yet to see Halflings perform anywhere near as well as they promise. Now that Faeries became better attackers with an extra offensive point on their elite, Halfling lost more ground on the a/t niche that they're supposedly designed for. Dwarf now also fills the a/t role decently while keeping better defensive buildings.
    Even when you can find a use for Halflings, kingdoms have to play a lot of them in order to make good use of their bonuses, so you're looking at slotting at least 8 provinces as Halflings, which is a big-time liability; and their one specialty is something that gets screwed by the RNG. A Halfer that isn't producing consistently successful results as a thief is basically a wasted slot, unless they are playing a big turtle attacker - and unless you're in one of the top growth kingdoms, you're not playing an effective big turtle. (And even then, Human, Elf, Dwarf, and Faery are all arguably better in that niche.)

    Dwarves are now a pretty good alternative to Humans, and very noob-friendly... but sadly they lack ToG. If Dwarf picks Merch to get ToG, they get little out of free building credits. The good news is that it is a lot easier for Dwarf kingdoms to organize rebuilding strategies, which is useful if you are playing in a kingdom and want to experiment with strategies beyond the boring standard individual province builds. Dwarf/Merch with ToG is easy to use and durable. Cleric and Tactician are also good Dwarf picks. Bear in mind that Dwarf has a lot of instant-cast spells that burn through mana that would be used for ToG, and Quick Feet is a pretty useful spell.

    The best results will be to pick either Human or Dwarf as the core - don't mix and match races, and try to avoid mixing personalities. I would still give the edge to Human, though Dwarf core is still effective.
    In either case, those core provinces should be supported by provinces that are capable of strong offense and durability, which Undeads fill nicely. Orcs also work, and Orc plays better with Dwarf than it does with Human. Unlike the economic core there is some space to mix races, though I would still prefer Undead Plague and conversions to Orc gains and kills. Also of note now is that elites are apparently able to slay dragons, so those races with 7 point elites can theoretically do significant dragon damage once they are overpopulated.

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    Im thinking a dwarf core with a mix between sage and cleric/merchant, then supported by undead warriors. Make the dwarf sages attacker mages, because FG and amnesia together can make them pretty effective against human cores. I'd like to have warrior to get the most use out of the enhanced massacres.

    I've always been a fan of dwarf cores and their versatility. While a fully pumped human core might be the strongest of the two, I think the cost effectiveness of the dwarf leet puts them at a higher war readiness rate than a human. I think it'll come down to personal preference, and I just value faster readiness and organized rebuilding. I'm sure we'll see high numbers of them both though if these changes stick.
    Last edited by natebane; 12-03-2014 at 05:16.

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    You still shouldn't pick Sage unless you are in a kingdom that can stand up in a fight against good growth and warring kingdoms, or are picking Sage to have Amnesia as a stall tactic against said good kingdoms.

    Dwarf core is easy to use, but Dwarf lacks any particular strong point, their classical weakness. It is hard to use them without being supported by something.

    I'd caution against too many Undeads. They look so easy and effective, and Undeads are certainly good, but Undeads lack thievery and their economy in war sucks. 8-10 is sufficient to have enough Undeads that they will take a couple of days to chain, while they inflict (and help others inflict, via plague) the maximum damage during those first couple of days; but after 2-3 days, defense and economic strength start to overtake sheer offensive power, and it becomes important to have provinces that are capable of more than fighting a grindwar.

    Again I wouldn't play Halfers in any kingdom without knowing that they are going to be successful at thievery, and that is always going to be a question mark - especially in poorly organized kingdoms.

    I've seen (and played one) good Faeries in poorly organized kingdoms. They're alright if you have players that understand that Faery's role is more economy than damage output, in particular the ability to slay dragons quickly and fill the space with secure peasants. Having a few such provinces that can secure themselves can make life so much easier in the ghetto, though it is admittedly harder to pull off now than it was when I did. I'd rather have a few Faeries than a team of Halflings, at any rate - much more versatile and much less RNG-screwable.

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    for warring id go; 12 humans (sage or cleric) / 8 orcs (warrior or cleric) / 5 mystics, prolly elfs for better success on durations spells

    for growth id go; 20 human wh / 5 feary mystic

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    Hmmm i was thinking something like this:

    I would say this for attackers:

    Undead + War Hero

    -50% loses and -50% train time
    +Immune to Dragon effects
    and Starts with 400 elites
    also elites costs 600gc (some few arms in the start and easy 450gc) and then
    Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks

    But reading in here im getting a bit mind-troubled about this setup =)

    I was seeing great advantages in the Immune to dragon effects since you already write that UDs gets into trouble with econ after a few days of waring. I havent played UDs in ages so i dont know the feel of them.
    But seeing that Clerics have -35% own losses making that up to -85% with the UD bonus. Im not sure about this part but what if we add 5% Hospitals to that -16% Military loses, are we up at -100% loses then? Im sure there must be a cap for this?

    Just some balls im throwing out in the jungle. I havent played utopia since late 90ties and early 2000 and even then i played only as t/m =)

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    The effects are multiplied, and have been since pretty much forever. :P

    UD cleric offense losses would be 100% (normal losses without mods) x 0.5 (-50% offense losses) x 0.65 (-35% cleric losses) = 32.5% of normal losses for UD cleric offensive losses.

    Further multiply by hosps bonus if you had them at whatever BE etc. etc. etc.

    So no, you won't get to 100%, there doesn't need to be a cap because you won't ever get there, but the multipliers are still pretty low offensive losses when combined.

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    Why all the love for humans? In terms of military, they lagged behind pretty much anything else this age until around 1500-2000 BPA, which most of the server never reaches, and most of the other races got elite buffs. Sure, they got some more income, but their relative income will be weaker next age than this age, because TOG is more widely available.

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    Well some of us in ghettos do enjoy the ability to turtle. :) Not all of us play where you do zapa :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gakundra View Post
    Well some of us in ghettos do enjoy the ability to turtle. :) Not all of us play where you do zapa :P
    It takes 1500-2000 BPA for humans to be on par with the other turtles. It takes much more for them to catch the pure hitters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zauper View Post
    It takes 1500-2000 BPA for humans to be on par with the other turtles. It takes much more for them to catch the pure hitters.
    I agree most of us are rubbing sticks together down here. Humans have value outside those mentioned, but I'm looking at elf and faery myself.
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    Logically Zauper is correact no real point playing human outside T20.

    However, like Elf it's fun and challenging for those who fancy it. And let's you play a bit.

    Edit: Always having a choice on sci, wizzies,econ,hitting,thief or mage is fun. Not optimal but fun.
    You have options to go serious and not play it too, based on pure maths if you wish.
    Last edited by makeo; 12-03-2014 at 14:08.

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    Seriously Faery WH? Noone in their right mind will send army out with Faery unless that province has 0 def. If you go against an organized kingdom, Faery/Halfing sending out will guarantee a deep chaịn
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCP View Post
    Seriously Faery WH? Noone in their right mind will send army out with Faery unless that province has 0 def. If you go against an organized kingdom, Faery/Halfing sending out will guarantee a deep chaịn
    I think the point is to ignore sapphires and still do supporting damage ops and maintain econ. War spoils on chain targets if you can still maintain UB.

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